Lying and Cheating & Potions!Genius....

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 165593

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...>
wrote:

> Carol:
> All you need to do to see that I'm right is to look at the text. 
> Harry unwraps the new book from "Flourish and Blotts:
> 
> "'Oh, good!" said Hermione, delighted. Now you can give that
> graffitied copy back.'
> 
> "'Are you mad?' said Harry. 'I'm keeping it.
>snip<
>
> 
> Harry is, of course, rationalizing. Money can't buy the HBP's
> brilliant hints and improvements. Note that this incident occurs
> *before* he has tried out any of the spells, though he has noticed
> "*what looked like spells* that the Prince had made up himself" (195).



Valky Now:
Yes, why shouldn't it be before he has tried out the spells. He
*wants* to try out the spells, and for that he'll have to keep the
book, No?

 


Carol:
> As far as
> Harry is concerned, the HBP's book is what won him the bottle of 
> Felix Felicis, and for that reason alone, he doesn't want to give it
> up (193).


'For that reason alone' is a bit loaded isn't it Carol. He'd just got
the book that day, everyone wanted to check it out after he won the
Felix so surprisingly, Hermione, Ron, even Ginny, were all curious
about the mysterious book and wanted a closer look. Harry getting
tetchy with them is more to do with the idea of everyone worrying
about him and making a public scene of it. He is *required* to keep
the book at that time, it is his prescribed text book. Nothing else
really enters into that. 


Carol:
> At this point, eighteen pages after he changes the book covers, he 
> has only tried out a few of the Prince's spells, including the 
> toenail hex, Langlock, and Muffliato, but the spells can't be the 
> *primary* reason that he wants to continue using the book, 

Valky:
Why can't they be, when he knows they are there and he hasn't had time
to read or try them yet? Why can't they at least be an equal reason.
He wants to try and read everything in the book, the spells the hints
and tips and the explanatory notes.

And, yes, there are explanatory notes and he is studying the book,
notes and all. 

--- Ch 15 ---

He (Harry) bent a little lower over Advanced Potion-Making and
continued to make notes on Everlasting Elixirs, occassionally pausing
to decipher the Prince's useful additions to Libatius Borage's text.

------------





> 
> Carol earlier:
> > > Look how desperate he is when he doesn't understand Golpalott's Law,
> > 
> Valky:
> > He's about to make his first attempt to ask Slughorn about the
> Horcruxes. 
> > 
> > "this was a moment for desperate measures" (377).
> 
> Carol responds:
> You're taking this phrase out of the detailed context I provided
> upthread, which I'll quote again in part:
> 
> "It took Harry only five minutes to realize that his reputation as 
> the best potion-maker in the class was crashing around his ears. 
> Slughorn had peered hopefully into his cauldron on the first circuit 
> of the dungeon, preparing to exclaim in delight as he usually did, 
> and instead had withdrawn his head hastily, coughing, as the smell 
> of bad eggs overwhelmed him" (376).


Valky:
It's too much to quote but read the context surrounding that earlier
in the day of this class.

He tells Ron Dumbledore's request for him to ask Slughorn for the
memory. Ron replies that it should be easy for Harry because of his
reputation, and suggests he just stay back after class to ask. 

Harry then asks Hermione, who attempts to be helpful right up until
the mention of Ron's name. At that point she snaps at Harry to just do
what 'Won Won' says and gives Harry the cold shoulder.

He tried to plan this out. His desperation was due to the only plan he
had turning into a disaster. 




> Carol:
> Granted, Harry is vaguely planning to ask Slughorn about the memory
> after class, 

It's not vague, it's specific. He asks his friends for suggestions and
ends up following Rons suggestion because Hermione refuses to talk to
him or Ron, and even goes as far as moving over next to Ernie to avoid
them. 





Carol:
> the memory he makes one feeble attempt to request at the
> end of the chapter and then forgets about for six weeks or so,

Valky:
He gets distracted when his best friend is very nearly the unintended
victim of an assassin, that he is sure is Draco. And he is right about
that, but unfortunately becomes obsessed with proving it.  







> Once he asks about it, Slughorn's expression is no longer
> genial, and he looks shocked and terrified (379). Harry's being a
> "Potions genius" has not helped him. 


Valky:
I said that. But Harry didn't know before he asked that it wouldn't work. 


> Carol:
> Slughorn continues to think of Harry as a Potions natural after this
> point, and Harry continues to hide the source of his knowledge from 
> him:
>
> "'I really don't know where you get your brainwaves . . . Unless--'
> 
> "Harry pushed the Half-Blood Prince's book deeper into his bag with
> his foot" (475).
> 
> Now, granted, Harry is still hoping to soften Slughorn up enough to
> get the memory from him, but that's hardly the only reason he's 
> still using the book and hiding it from Slughorn. 

Valky:
No it's not the only reason he's using it and hiding it, No, but
reputation is not even nearly the main reason. He is trying to prevent
Slughorn finding out to avoid the inevitable strife and loss of the
book and revealing of his secrets he faces if a teacher does find out
what is in it. 





> Even after he gets the
> memory, he wants to keep the book because it's useful. He even uses 
> it for its real purpose once, looking up the formula for Felix 
> Felicis, which turns out to be too complicated to be concocted 
> quickly (518).
> Shortly afterwards, he uses Sectumsempra on Draco and hides his book
> so that Snape won't confiscate it and not only discover the true
> source of the spell but reveal the secret of his Potions brilliance 
> to Slughorn:
> 
> "[W]hat had the Prince een thinking to copy such a spell into his
> book? And what would happen when Snape saw it? Would he tell
> Slughorn--Harry's stomach churned--how Harry had been achieving such
> good results in Potins all year?" (525)

Valky:
Yes, having your lie blown wide open is a scary thought. But Harry is
frequently inaccurate in his assumptions of how people will react to
situations. He doesn't know what Slughorn will do if he finds out the
notes in the book were behind it all, but he does know how high this
tower of lies has been built and doesn't want the consequences of it
falling. 


Carol: 
> Regarding the confrontation with Voldemort as Harry's primary 
> motive, he doesn't even think about it, as far as we know, between 
> the conversation in the Weasleys' shed and the revelation of the
> eavesdropper's identity, except in terms of the Horcrux lessons. 

Valky:
Becoming obsessed with the idea that Draco Malfoy is a Death Eater,
roaming Hogwarts and trying to kill someone isn't worrying about the
situation with Voldemort? 

As for not thinking about it between Horcrux lessons, that's a bit
harsh, considering he has a huge school workload that he is trying to
juggle with being captain of the Quidditch team (which is an honour
that he loves but doesn't have much energy for) and still he's making
incredible progress in understanding Voldemort's history and psychology.  

It's not even fair to bring his feelings for Ginny into this, Love
doesn't ask if you're too busy, and it doesn't wait if you are. 

Throughout the book Harry gradually blows off one thing after the
other that lacks importance in the greater scheme of his life.
Including Quidditch eventually and ultimately Ginny in the last
Chapter. It starts with using inferior notes to learn from, when he
clearly does not have to. 




> Carol, who thinks that the upcoming confrontation with Voldemort is
> far from being Harry's primary motivation for using and hiding the
> HBP's book
>

Valky:
The primary motivation I see, as I said before, is that the book is
valuable. His primary motivation for keeping things which are useful,
although they may be dangerous and pose a threat to his good standing,
instead of choosing those things that are less useful by virtue of
following some law which is arbitrary in the scheme of his life, is
that he has a very short time before he confronts Voldemort. 

This is not an easy choice to make.