The green liquid in the basin

[Goddlefrood]

No: HPFGUIDX 165674

> Goddlefrood earlier:
> What would lead to the conclusion that if R. A. B. refilled the 
basin (and we have all been assuming that he put the fake locket in 
the basin himself) he must have been a powerful dark wizard?

> > Carol responded:
> > If he refilled the basin with *that* potion, the one that causes
Dementor-like memories and physical agony and terrible thirst, the 
one that's "no health drink" 

Godlefrood Interjects:

Only the description of what Dumbledore was going through leads to 
the *assumptions* of what the potion caused. When Dumbledore needed 
to actually do anything he did not seem incapacitated at all, even 
with his blackened wand hand. He managed to conjure fire to get rid 
of the Inferi, undo protections on the Hogwarts grounds and hold 
coherent conversations with both harry and Draco. Granted that he was 
not in fantastic shape, but then who's to say that this was not due 
to the lingering effects of the curses he broke on the ring rather 
than the potion. Is it not possible, however unlikely, that the whole 
Cave episode was staged for Harry's benefit?

> > Carol again:
> > <SNIP> and it was *not* the original potion but his own
> creation, then he was a sadistic and evil little Dark wizard. Good
> wizards don't create such potions. It's an instrument of torture
> whether it's fatal or not. <SNIP> (balance of paragraph)

Goddlefrood:

Reference the above comment again. If it was all a set up for Harry's 
benefit then we can not make too many assumptions about the potion in 
the basin. Slughorn was brewing some decidedly nasty little potions 
in his classes, and whoever R.A.B. is (and I'm inclined to agree it 
was Reggie, even if I still have a fondness for my Mrs. Black theory 
{since shot down by the release of her full name}) was presumably 
taught Potions at Hogwarts under Uncle Horace. Either one of these 
taught potions could have footed the bill or another that R.A.B. came 
across in the Advanced Potions book.

I do not propose to argue here as to the function of the potion vis a 
vis the Inferi and whether the two are perhaps linked, as has been 
speculated, and which Carol takes as a matter of course to be the 
case.

> Goddlefrood earlier:
> There is not enough to go on to conclude that the potion Dumbledore
> drank was fatal or intended to be so by whoever placed it there.
> Indeed if it were intended to be fatal to whomsoever might drink it
> then wouldn't it be more likely that it would be fairly instant and
> not give the drinker the time to consume a dozen or more goblets of
> the stuff? <snip>

> > To which Carol responded (in part):
> > That sounds like Dumbledore's logic. He says that Voldemort 
wouldn't want the drinker to die *immediately*. He doesn't say that 
LV wouldn't want the drinker to die at all. Of course, he would--
after a great deal of suffering.

Goddlefrood now:

Well, thank you for the compliment of comparison to Dumbledore, 
widely acknowledged as the greatest wizard of his age. My view is 
that Voldemort would certainly not have wanted anyone to potentially 
find the Horcrux at all and if they had got so far as the basin then 
it makes sense to me that LV would want anyone trying to drink the 
potion, if there were no other way, to die pretty quickly albeit 
perhaps not immediately.

> > Carol again (after a little snipping):

> > That the potion is a horrendous instrument of torture isn't even 
open to question. After drinking several gobletsful (and experiencing
terrible memories that might or might not be his own), Dumbledore 
*screams* in *anguish*, "I want to die! I want to die!" and then "KILL
ME!" (HBP Am. ed. 573)

Goddlefrood:

With you so far, but why does this exclude debate exactly...

> > Carol:
> > At least once, Harry thinks that Dumbledore is dead or nearly dead
from the potion alone:

"Dumbledore gulped at the goblet, drained every last drop, and then,
with a great rattling gasp, rolled over onto his face.

Goddlefrood again:

Harry's POV and he's the expert...

> > Carol:

> > Afterwards, DD is extremely weak and pale, on the verge of 
collapes more than once. If it weren't for Harry's repeated Renervate 
and perhaps for the sprinkle of water, DD would not have made it out 
of the cave, nor could he have Apparated back to Hogsmeade without 
Harry.

Goddlefrood:

Granted, but again it's all from Harry's POV and we really don't know 
how affected DD was. He managed some pretty fancy wandwork when 
required.

Not that I'm saying the potion in the basin is something I would 
happily consume but my point was really we don't know and as was 
pointed out the basin may simply refill itself and the liquid in it 
pre-dates any of the characters in the books.

Goddlefrood just trying to move the debate along...