And in The End...CoS

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 165780

Celia wrote:
> <snip> This post focuses on that oft-maligned second
> novel, CoS. Here are a few items that may be important to The
> End, IMHO, and got their start in CoS. <snip>
>
> 1. Dobby and the House Elves: Alright, not my favorite part of the
> series, but bound to be important nonetheless. <snip>

Carol:
Ugh. Not mine, either. To venture a guess, if there's an attack on
Hogwarts, and there surely will be, the house-elves will somehow help
fight Voldemort. And here's a reason for the school to stay open--if
it doesn't hordes of unemployed house-elves will descend on the WW,
seeking what? Employment? Wages? Rights? With Dumbledore dead, who's
in charge? Will they consider McGonagall their mistress? Will they
have anything to do with no students to cook for and do laundry for?
No beds to make or messes to clean up? (Keep the school open,
McGonagall, if you have any sense at all!)
>
> 2. How is it possible that Voldemort entrusted one of his horcruxes
(the diary) to Lucius Malfoy? Or did he? Where might Lucius have found
it? Do you think this is evidence that other horcruxes (besides/in
addition to the locket) may have been moved from their original hiding
places and protections? Would Voldemort really have distributed some
of them to his followers? Who else might have one? Did Lucius have a
clue about the true nature of the diary when he gave it to Ginny? Does
he know about the horcruxes?

Carol:
I think that Voldemort started to feel concerned about the safety of
his Horcruxes after he heard the Prophecy. I also think that he
entrusted the locket to Bellatrix, actually telling her it was a
Horcrux (she doesn't know about the others, IMO) and gave her
instructions on where and how to hide it. He must have hidden the ring
Horcrux himself, possibly soon after it was created since the
protections seem crude compared with those on the locket. He entrusted
the diary, which was always intended to be interactive and worked
differently from the other Horcruxes, to Lucius, revealing its
original purpose and how it worked but not telling him that it was a
Horcrux. Nagini, even if she was a Horcrux at that point (DD doesn't
think she was, but I wonder) would not need to be hidden. She can look
out for herself. I have no idea where the others are (the RoR seems
the most likely location), but I don't think he entrusted them to
anybody. He didn't have that many fanatically loyal followers, and
Barty Jr. doesn't seem to have had one. And if he'd given one to Snape
and then later doubted Snape's loyalties, Snape would certainly be
dead. I think, though, that Snape knows about the Horcruxes thanks to
DD. He and Slughorn are the only living people besides HRH and Bella
(who, IMO, knows about one and may have told the Lestrange brothers,
as well--soul-sucked Barty Jr. doesn't count now) and LV himself who
know about them, in my view. Lucius, like the other DEs, only knows
that LV took measures to ensure his immortality. If he and the others
had known about even one Horcrux, they'd never have dared to claim the
Imperius Curse, or they'd have escaped Azkaban only to go and look for
him, as the Lestranges and Barty Jr. seem to have done. They'd have
known that LV would return and punish them for their disloyalty if the
y knew he had even one Horcrux. (Snape is another matter. It's hard to
know how much he, a Dark Arts expert, suspected from an early age,
meaning about twenty, and from his association with Dumbledore.)
>
> 3. Was there a larger point to the entire Deathday party scene
besides a fun side-story about ghost culture for all of us? Will the
Headless Hunt, the ghosts, etc. get to play a real role in DH? Might
these long-dead spirits have some key info on Horcruxes or any other
subject for HRH?

Carol:
I think that the Death Day party was primarily a plot device to insure
that HRH were in the wrong place at the wrong time. And I wonder if
Snape really did suspect Harry of Petrifying Mrs. Norris, considering
the Serpensortia spell he apparently suggested to Draco and his words
to Bellatrix in HBP about the DEs wondering if Harry might be another
Dark Lord in the making. (I think he questioned Harry on the first day
of Potions class for the same reason, to find out whether there was
any truth to the Dark!Harry rumors and, assuming the rumors proved
false, dispel any delusions on the part of the DE's children that
Harry was LV's successor. (The last thing the Prophecy Boy needed was
Slytherin hangers on thinking he was the next Dark Lord.) But the
Petrification of Mrs. Norris, obviously Dark magic, might have aroused
his suspicions again, especially in combination of the "Enemies of the
Heir, Beware" message and Harry's presence at the crime scene. I'm
assuming DDM!Snape, of course. 

Oops--forgot about the ghosts. Like the house-elves and even
the suits of armor and even Peeves, I think they'll rise up against
the Death Eaters in DH. The place isn't quite as uninhabited as it
seems. Bad news for the portraits, though, if the DEs get in. Good
thing that the Headmaster's office (or Headmistress's now) can lock
itself to prevent unauthorized entry (as it did against Umbridge).
>
> 4. Do you think there is more than one secret in the Chamber of
"Secrets"? Will there be a return to the Chamber in The End, or was it
truly The Chamber of One Secret Basilisk?

Carol:
Don't know. It would be a good place to hide a Horcrux, which would
certainly qualify as a second Secret.
>
> 5. The Dueling Club (on my list of top-ten favorite scenes in the
series, I believe it comes in at #5) contains that lovely moment where
it appears that Snape teaches Draco "Serpensortia" in order to
attack/test Harry. (Now I wonder if that is an HBP spell!) What is
Snape up to in this chapter? Why does he agree to be there at all? Why
does he set up Harry and Draco? Why does he immediately offer to get
rid of the snake for Harry? Why, Snape, why?! Basically, do we get any
ESE/DDM/OFH help from his actions in this scene?

Carol:
I do think that Serpensortia is an HBP spell, but Snape seems to think
that Draco already knows how to do it. (Surely, conjuring a serpent
out of thin air is rather advanced magic for a second-year and must
require at least as much practice as turning a hedgehog into a
pincushion? OTOH, this may be a case of plot requirements outweighing
consistency and logic.) Also, we don't *know* that Snape whispered
"Serpensortia." He may have whispered something else and Draco could
have come up with that spell on his own. (Unlikely, I realize, but
it's been suggested before.)

I *do* think that Snape had his suspicions about Harry at this point
and deliberately suggested that spell to see whether Harry was a
Parselmouth. At any rate, the "shrewd and calculating look" on Snape's
face afterwards (evidence that he's putting two and two together)
looks to me like the confirmation of a pre-existing suspicion of a
connection between Harry and the Basilisk (surely Snape and DD know by
now that it's a Basilisk). The revelation that Harry speaks
Parseltongue certainly points to a strong connection between Voldemort
and Harry that Snape, former DE, DADA expert, and Dumbledore's
righthand man (none of which Harry knows or suspects at the time),
could not fail to see. Even if Harry *isn't* the Heir of Slytherin, as
Snape seems to suspect, Snape would deduce that Harry has nevertheless
acquired at least one of LV's powers, presumably as a result of the
scar connection (or the killing curse that failed). I suspect that
Snape had a good long talk with Dumbledore after the duelling club
session about the implications of Harry's knowing Parseltongue. 

It's even possible that DD set up the duelling club in the first place
to allow Snape to conduct that experiment, but I don't think so. Snape
seems to have volunteered his services as Lockhart's assistant, no
doubt with a variety of motives, including exposing Lockhart and
actually teaching the kids a useful spell or two. I have no idea
whether Serpensortia was part of the plan or a sudden inspiration, but
I do think it either reflects or confirms Snape's suspicions of
Harry's involvement in the only Petrification that has yet occurred,
Mrs. Norris's.

There's another important aspect of this duelling club meeting that
you didn't mention. It's Snape's first opportunity to teach DADA and,
"assistant" or not, he's very much in charge. Besides exposing
Lockhart's ineptitude in front of virtually all the students,
making an utter fool of him, as well as determining who should be
partners with whom, Snape eliminates the effects of all their hexes
and jinxes with a single "Finite Incantatem," vanishes the conjured
snake with a nonverbal spell (Evanesco?) after Lockhart succeeds only
in sending it into the air and enraging it, and teaches Harry and the
others Expelliarmus, possibly the most important defensive spell they
know. Harry and Ron first use it to disarm Lockhart (who later
snatches Ron's damaged wand, to Lockhart's detriment). Harry uses it
against Voldemort in the Priori Incantatem scene. All three of them
use it against Snape himsself in PoA (obviously an unintended
consequence of the lesson. Poor Snape!). It comes in handy at the DoM,
IIRC. And Draco, alas, uses it against Dumbledore in HBP, another
unintended consequence of that early lesson. But still, Snape has
taught Harry two of his most important lessons--Bezoars and
Expelliarmus. And we get hints here of exactly what DADA would be like
if only he had been allowed to teach it before Harry's sixth year. If
only the position weren't cursed (or jinxed, if you prefer).

> 6. The Homorphus Charm: Hope for Remus and Bill?

Carol:
I don't think so. I think the Homorphous Charm only reveals whether an
animal is an Animagus (surely it's the spell that Lupin and Black use
on Pettigrew in PoA). Possibly, the witch or wizard whose story
Lockhart stole in CoS used it to transform the werewolf long enough to
reveal his identity, but if it could transform a werewolf permanently,
or even for a single full moon, into himself, it would surely be in
widespread use by Aurors and Healers. There would be little need for
Wolfbane Potion, and werewolves could be easily controlled. Bill
doesn't seem to be in danger of transforming into a werewolf, but
there may be some unadulterated poison in those wounds--another reason
I don't think he'll survive into the Epilogue.
>
> 7. An oldie, but a goodie. What do you think would have
> happened if Riddle had escaped from the diary by stealing
> Ginny's soul? Would he have been a second Voldemort, with a
> far different soul, partially Ginny, partially himself? Has the
> diary's destruction weakened Voldemort? Does Voldie know of
> the destruction of the diary?

Carol:
Last question first: he knows of the destruction of the diary
(presumably Voldie asked him about it and he was forced to confess),
and the result was unexplained fury on Voldie's part. (DD's source for
this info has to be Snape.) I don't think that the loss of a Horcrux
affects him directly in any way. It's just one less soul bit anchoring
him to earth, one less security blanket. And, of course, the magic of
the number seven is all spoiled and can't, IMO, be recreated by making
an eighth Horcrux. He surely doesn't know about the ring being
destroyed (he only knows what Snape has told him,that DD sustained a
serious injury as the result of slowed reflexes) or about the stolen
fake locket, any more than he knew that the original locket was
stolen. As for what would have happened if a fully animated Diary!Tom
had met Vapor!mort, I asked the same question and received no answers.
Maybe Vapor!mort would possess his own young body, becoming doubly
strong. I can't imagine Diary!Tom attempting to kill his older self,
his future self, and if he knew about the Horcruxes (I'm not sure that
he did), he'd realize that doing so was futile, anyway. Vapor!mort,
being virtually indestructible, would probably win the contest if
there was one. (I'm open to other readings, however. JKR says it would
have made Voldie stronger, and I'm trying to figure out how. We can't
have two Voldies running around interfering with each other's power
grab, can we?)

> 8. Selfishly
I just posted it to no response, so I won't again, but
> I'm always eager to discuss Aragog's origins and how I think
> that will be key to The End. See post 106761 for my old theory
> and 164920 for my most recent additions. I'll never give up!

Carol:
Sorry. No thoughts on the subject. I'm more interested in where Nagini
came from and how Quirrell got Vapor!mort into England before Voldie
had possessed him, but oops, wrong book!

> 9. Anyone want to venture a theory that any of these uniquely CoS
> things will be important in The End?
> Colin Creevey
> Kwikspell
> The Flying Ford Anglia
> Gilderoy Lockhart
> Skele-Gro
> Justin Finch-Fletchley
> The Malfoy's Secret Chamber Under the Floor

Carol:
Not all of these items/people are unique to CoS. Colin Creevy acquires
a brother in GoF and becomes a member of the DA (along with Dennis,
whose adventure with the giant squid seems rather pointless at the
moment but may foreshadow something). Gilderoy Lockhart reappears in
OoP as the means of getting HRH into the closed ward, where they learn
about the Longbottoms. Skele-gro is mentioned by Draco in GoF ("Her's
me thinking he [Hagrid] swallowed a bottle of Skele-gro]. Kwikspell, I
think, is merely a clue that Filch is a Squib, a concept that becomes
important later in connection with blood purity and Arabella Figg, my
favorite Squib. The Flying Ford Anglia is probably hanging out with
Sirius Black's flying motorcycle. I expect both to reappear in DH,
along with the Centaurs and your beloved Acromantulas. Justin
Finch-Fletchley I don't know about. As a Muggleborn, he seems likely
to return to Hogwarts. His parents won't know about the Death Eaters
or even about the death of Dumbledore if Justin keeps quiet. And the
Malfoys' secret chamber, which obviously wasn't found when Mr. Weasley
did another raid on the Malfoys' manor because *Harry forgot to
mention it* is undoubtedly where Bellatrix Lestrange is hiding. (Draco
may hide there, too, if he doesn't stay with Snape. After all, he's an
accessory to murder and guilty of criminal endangerment in his own right.)

>
> 10. Okay we've been here way too much already, but it is in CoS, so
I must include it:
>
> "Voldemort put a bit of himself in *me*?" Harry said, thunder-struck.
> "It certainly seems so." (p.333, Am. PB ed.)
>
> So, Horcrux or not a horcrux, that is the question


Carol:
Anyone who doesn't know that I think Harry acquired some of Voldie's
*powers* without becoming a Horcrux hasn't been reading this list more
than a month. "A bit of himself" (Harry's words, not DD's) need not
mean a soul fragment.

>
> -Celia
> who had fun re-reading the CoS scene in Borgin and Burkes after just
re-reading HBP, and realizing that now almost everything in that scene
has been used- but what about the glass eye and the hangman's rope?

Carol:
Don't know about the hangman's rope (mere background to disguise the
importance of other items in the scene, rather like the box of wartcap
powder in OoP?), but maybe the glass eye foreshadows Mad-Eye (without
actually being his).

Thanks for an enjoyable chance to go in a different direction from the
plethora of Snape and Horcrux posts. (Not that I ever get enough of
Snape.)

Carol, who still wants to know how Ron knew (in HBP) that Draco had
the Hand of Glory, which Lucius does *not* buy for him in CoS