CHAPDISC: HBP30, The White Tomb

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 165813

> > Magpie:
> > I think that could be true. Not that Hermione specifically has 
> > information we don't, but it's very like her to have started 
> > puzzling things out herself and perhaps realize she's a DDM!
Snaper! 
> > Hermione's very often the one to figure out what's really going 
on 
> > with what people are doing where Harry only looks at the 
surface. 
> > She might not know Snape well, but she's always trusted 
Dumbledore 
> > and may simply not believe Dumbledore was so fooled. 
> 
> a_svirn:
> This doesn't look like a sound judgment, though. More like "it 
cannot 
> be true because it can never ever be true". Why can't she believe 
> that Dumbledore was fooled? He is only human. 

Magpie:
Oh, I didn't mean to suggest it was a sound judgment, just that 
Hermione may have begun, in her mind, looking for evidence that 
Dumbledore wasn't fooled and that Snape wasn't evil, and perhaps 
that's partly behind her resistance to giving him the label. 
Hermione could certainly be wrong--as could Dumbledore. 
>
> > Magpie:
> Also she's got 
> > reason to defend DDM!Snape anyway, having always dismissed 
Harry's 
> > doubts about Snape in the past. 
> 
> a_svirn:
> This sounds even less sensible. Not to say childish. 

Magpie:
That sort of thing could definitely be not sensible and childish, 
but it's also a common way of thinking. It's just a case of trying 
to make things fit what you already know instead of immediately 
discarding it all--she's seen evidence of her previous understanding 
in the past. Harry's own reasons for wanting Snape to be evil aren't 
completely objective either (which is not to say he imagined Snape 
murdering somebody in front of his eyes). 
> 
> > Magpie:
> > I don't just mean that Hermione's pride is at stake so she 
doesn't 
> > want Harry to be right. I mean she may have given thought to 
this 
> > matter in the past just as many readers have each time Harry 
> brought 
> > up his suspicions, so she's not ready to let them go. 
> 
> a_svirn:
> Ah, but then they were only suspicions. And Dumbledore was alive. 
Now 
> she has to face facts. And the facts, as she knows them, are as 
> follows: Snape was instrumental to the Potters' murder; Dumbledore 
> trusted him because he was impressed by his remorse (granted, 
that's 
> only Harry's interpretation, but that's the only one she has); 
Snape 
> made a vow to kill Dumbledore and eventually he did kill him. She 
> knows nothing about the circumstances under which he took the vow 
> (not that it is very helpful knowledge as far as I am concerned, 
but 
> perhaps she could have spotted something at Spinner's Endwe we all 
> have missed so far.) She wasn't at the Tower and didn't see 
Snape's 
> expression, nor did she hear Dumbledore's last words; she probably 
> doesn't even know that Snape spared Harry's life when they dueled 
> in "the Prince's flight". As far as she knows the facts, Snape 
*is* a 
> traitor and a murderer. Which does rather bespeak evil 
disposition.  

Magpie:
Right--but we're looking for reasons Hermione still feels the need 
to say that "evil is a strong word." So clearly despite the evidence 
she has and Dumbledore's death she's not ready to say he's evil. I 
think personality-wise this fits with Hermione for maybe a 
combination of all these reasons mentioned in the thread. For Harry 
everything makes sense now that Snape has killed Dumbledore. Perhaps 
for Hermione it doesn't--I know it doesn't for me! Harry has always 
seen Snape as being dastardly. For Hermione the murder is the 
anomaly.

 
> > Magpie:
> She herself 
> > never, iirc, called the Prince "evil" either, just a bad 
influence 
> > on Harry, and she may have begun theorizing about things she 
> doesn't 
> > know regarding Snape and Dumbledore now that the shock is over. 
If 
> > Hermione's anything like me in this respect (and I get the 
feeling 
> > she is), she never wants to be wrong, so she is hesitant about 
> > making an extreme judgment too quickly. 
> 
> a_svirn:
> But she *knows* that Snape murdered Dumbledore. It's not just a 
> suspicion of "once a death eater, always a death eater" kind. It 
> wouldn't be too extreme to call him "murderer" or even "evil" from 
> where she stands.

Magpie:
And yet she doesn't want to do that, exactly. She may still feel 
that she doesn't have enough information to understand what really 
went on and from her perspective I don't think that's so surprising. 
Even if Snape did betray Dumbledore and murder him, "evil" isn't 
much of an explanation. It can obscure the events rather than make 
them clear. "Murderer" is certainly a reasonable thing to call Snape 
given what Harry has seen, but it doesn't explain his whole 
personality either. It's something Harry even uses, iirc, to shut 
off any thinking about Snape as the HBP.

Hermione isn't defending Snape here, that I recall, or trying to 
prove he didn't kill Dumbledore. She could just be wanting to 
understand what really went on, which "evil" doesn't give her. It's 
more of an emotional judgment, which is just what Harry wants. I 
think she could also be instinctively reacting against exactly that. 
so character-wise, it seems completely consistent for Hermione to be 
the one witholding judgment of evil. She doesn't always do that, but 
her own harsh judgments are usually reserved (understandably) for 
the people that get under her skin--often females, like Rita and 
Umbridge. 

-m