Snape, Voldemort and the DADA position

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 165820

Bobby wrote:
>
> 1. I've heard people discuss that Snape has fooled both Voldemort
and Dumbledore in the whole "is Snape good or bad" argument. However,
I haven't heard the following specific point addressed (probably
missed it)... but to me, it makes perfect sense that Snape would be
fooling Voldemort and not Dumbledore. The reason is that even though
Dumbledore is trusting, he isn't stupid... he trusts when he should.
This is best demonstrated with the fact that Dumbledore never trusts
young Riddle even though EVERY OTHER teacher fawns over him.
>
> In terms of Voldemort... even though he is the opposite of
Dumbledore (in terms of being suspicious and non-trusting), it makes
perfect sense that Snape is able to deceive him because his major
weakness is his pride. He would NEVER believe that anyone could hide
things from him. Doesn't he always say "I always know when people are
lying"?? He is so prideful in his Legilimency abilities, he cannot
fathom that Snape is lying to him. This more than anything to me
argues for Snape being on the "good" side.

Carol responds:
I agree with you, and I think this idea is borne out not only by
Snape's words to Harry in the Occlumency lessons but by his words to
Bellatrix in HBP, which I'll discuss in more detail in a moment.

It's important to note that unlike, say, Draco, Snape is a "superb
Occlumens" (Lupin's compliment, and Lupin does not hand out praise
lightly, especially to Snape) who can "shut down those feelings and
memories that contradict the lie and so utter falsehoods in his
presence without detection" (OoP Am. ed. 531). It's obvious to Snape
that Draco has erected some sort of mental barrier to block Snape from
seeing his thoughts (or memories or emotions). Try that trick with
Voldemort and you'll be lucky if he Crucios rather than kills you. To
practice Occlumency undetected, Snape must be able to supply alternate
or even faked memories to fool a Legilimens as skilled as LV appears
to be (and I do think he's genuinely skilled since he seems to have
been able to detect lies as early as age eleven). If he were merely
presenting a mental barrier like Draco's, LV would know what he was doing.

Dumbledore, of course, is also a highly skilled Legilimens, perhaps
better even than LV, but even he could possibly be fooled by a highly
skilled Occlumens like Snape. However, he can also read people
psychologically far better than Voldemort can (if not quite
perfectly), and I don't think that Occlumency can create a false
*emotion* even if it can create a false memory. If Snape's remorse
were fake, surely Dumbledore's Legilimency would detect that, no
matter how skilled he is at acting. (The phrase "spun a tale of
deepest remorse" is for Bellatrix's benefit, and Snape also pretends
that he told the tale to DD after the Potters' deaths, but we know
from GoF that the remorse preceded the fall of Voldemort.) And
Dumbledore surely knows that Snape would not have spied for him "at
great personal risk" (before becoming a teacher, obviously, or there
would be neither danger nor opportunity to spy) if the remorse weren't
sincere. So, I agree. Dumbledore has reason to believe that Snape is
telling him the truth, that his remorse and his loyalty are sincere,
and he doesn't need Legilimency to know that. Nor do I think that
Snape, who IMO knows that DD is a greater wizard than LV, would be
foolish enough to attempt Occlumency on Dumbledore. If he *were*
detected, the trust that he had worked so hard to build would be in
shambles. And Dumbledore's trust is very important to Snape, as he
reveals to Fake!Moody in an angry moment under the delusion that
Fake!Moody is also DD's trusted friend. (An aside here: People have
wondered why Snape doesn't use Legilimency--not Occlumency--on
Fake!Moody, suspicious as he always is of the DADA teachers. But it
would hardly do to attempt Legilimency on *Moody*, the Auror hired to
protect Hogwarts during the TWT, even if it could be done with that
awful magical eye looking right through you. And Fake!Moody's personal
dislike of him as a DE who "walked free" exactly matches the real
Moody's feelings. Snape can feel resentful and even envious of DD's
new righthand man without figuring out that Fake!Moody is a DE in
disguise. Once Fake!Moody is exposed, he goes right back to his old
place again, indicating that DD knows where Snape's loyalties lie and
perhaps regrets the slip.)

Regarding Voldemort's pride, I also agree with you. He may know that
Snape is an Occlumens, but I doubt that he has any idea how skilled
Snape really is. Snape askes Bellatrix rhetorically, "Do you really
think that the Dark Lord has not asked me each and every one of those
questions? And do you really think that, had I not been able to give
satisfactory answers, I would be sitting here talking to you?" IOW,
Snape is about to give her exactly the same answers that he's already
given to Voldemort, and Voldemort has believed him (at least to the
extent of allowing him to survive the encounter).

Bellatrix hesitates. "I know he believes you but . . . ." and Snape
counters with, "You think he is mistaken? Or that I have somehow
hoodwinked him? Fooled the Dark Lord, the greatest wizard, the most
accomplished Legilimens the world has ever seen?" (HBP Am. ed. 26).

Bellatrix is trapped. She can't acknowledge that the Dark Lord could
be wrong or that he could somehow be hoodwinked by Severus Snape (who
hasn't mentioned his skills as an Occlumens in this cleverly worded
response as that would reveal exactly how he *did* hoodwink
Voldemort). He's merely worded the question so that she can't voice
her suspicions of him without seeming to doubt his Lordship's
greatness. Snape wisely doesn't press his advantage. He instead
changes the subject, providing ostensibly truthful answers to her
questions (with some significant omissions like sending the Order to
the MoM).

Bobby:
> 2. WHY does everyone covet the Defense Against the Dark Arts job???
Voldemort, Snape... there seems to be an inordinate amount of interest
in this job from these two people who are in love with the Dark Arts-
why do they want to teach a "Defense" class? Is there some sort of
power or secret related to Hogwarts that the DADA teacher is privy to?

Carol:
I think it's clear why *Voldemort* would have wanted the DADA job if
he were hired. DD is probably right that LV doesn't want to teach so
much as to influence young minds and recruit followers--and where
better to do that than in a popular class like DADA, which everyone
wants to learn (unless they have a bad teacher like Lockhart or
Umbridge). Even Fake!Moody seems to have enjoyed teaching that
class, pushing the limits so that he could not only hex students under
the pretense of teaching them hex deflection but actually torture and
kill spiders and cast the Imperius Curse on students. Voldemort, too,
would have pushed the class to its limits, taking advantage of its
closeness to or association with the Dark Arts. In fact, I don't doubt
that, like Karkaroff, he would actually have taught the Dark Arts if
he could manage it. (Needless to say, DD was not about to give him the
opportunity.) 

But also, LV would not have wanted the students to learn *Defense*
Against the Dark Arts, which is probably why he "jinxed" (cursed) the
class to prevent any DADA teacher from teaching more than a year and
particularly to prevent the good ones from returning--that and revenge
on Dumbledore for not hiring him. (Quirrell, the exception to the
rule, seems to have developed a dangerous desire to encounter Dark
creatures in person, which conveniently led him straight to
Albania--and Vapormort. And even he seems to have taught for only one
year before that unfortunate excursion based on Dumbledore's remark in
HBP.)

Snape is another matter. Of course, he tells Bellatrix (and presumably
Voldemort) that DD doesn't want him to teach DADA because it might
tempt him to resume his old ways, that is, take up his old interest in
the Dark Arts, but we see that teaching the class does no such thing
to him. He teaches the students nonverbal spells, alternate defenses
against Dementors, ways of resisting the Imperius curse (if only we
could sit in on more of his lessons or essay assignments!). He doesn't
demonstrate the Unforgiveable Curses even to his sixth years; he only
shows their effects using posters (no doubt moving ones like Ron's
Quidditch posters). He pairs the students off to practice nonverbal
curses and countercurses on each other, only resorting to hexing Harry
nonverbally when Ron fails to do it (which< IMO, is why Harry's verbal
Protego hit him so hard--it was deflecting Snape's own spell, which is
what a Protego does--not that Harry's reflexes were faster than
Snape's, as we know from "Flight of the Prince" that they aren't).

At any rate, I think that on one level, Snape does want to teach DADA
because he's extremely good at it, just as he is at Potions, but
unlike Potions, DADA is a course for the masses, not for the elite.
IOW, everyone needs to learn it, as he acknowledges by admitting
anyone who passed their OWL (even with an Acceptable), even giving
remedial lessons to those who failed (Crabbe and Goyle), in contrast
to NEWT Potions, to which he admits only those who have earned an O.
DADA is especially important with Voldemort back, and most of the
students (Draco excepted) realize that.

And yet Snape can't help but know that the DADA class is cursed/jinxed
given the fates of his predecessors (including those we don't see--the
class is already rumored to be jinxed before Quirrell meets his fate).
He applied for the DADA position on Voldemort's orders, but Snape
would have told DD that, and DD, I think, gave him the cover story
that he feared that the position would tempt him to take up the Dark
Arts. Meanwhile, he took the opportunity to hire Snape to teach
Potions, not only because he was exceptionally good at it but because
it would keep him safely at Hogwarts for most of the year, away from
the DEs and Voldemort. So, IMO, young Snape was a protected person
like Trelawney and Hagrid, but he was also given a large amount of
responsibility at an early age, surely becoming HoH in his first year
in Slughorn's place (the reverse of what occurs at the end of HBP). 

If I'm right that Snape, like Dumbledore, knew or suspected that LV
was not dead (his words to Bellatrix to the contrary), he would have
continued to apply for the DADA position every year as a show of
loyalty to LV when he returned, but I think he knew he would never be
hired for the position until the time was ripe--after Voldie had
returned and DD urgently needed his talents in that position
(including side jobs like dealing with cursed necklaces). And they
would both know that Snape would leave the job in disgrace (if he
survived the year) and be forced to return to the Death Eaters. So I
think that DD held the job in reserve for Snape until the time that
his need for Snape to teach DADA and return to the DEs outweighed his
need for him to teach Potions and act as his watchdog and righthand
man around Hogwarts.

Carol, wishing that Harry had could have learned what Snape had to
teach him before the opportunity was lost forever and knowing that the
fault lies as much with Snape's personality as with Harry's preconceptions