Nagini / great but terrible / Homorphus / the DADA curse

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 165957

Shelley wrote in
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/165557>:
> 
> << We see Wormtail needing to "milk Nagini"- milk is used for a
baby, is it not? >>
> 
Catlady:
> Here in the Muggle real world, 'milk' is the verb for drawing venom
from a snake, such as to use the venom to produce antivenin.

Carol responds:
Well, yes. But JKR, with her love of puns, is taking advantage of the
verb "milk" in this sense to suggest that by "milking" Nagini,
Wormtail provides Fetal!mort with sustenance, making Nagini a kind of
surrogate mother. Not only does she provide figurative mother's milk
to keep him alive (or to sustain his existence, since he's surviving
rather than living per the Prophecy), her venom is also an ingredient,
along with unicorn blood, in the potion that Wormtail brewed to create
the fetal form in the first place. No wonder she's Voldemort's "dear
Nagini." He owes as much to her as Harry does to Lily. Nagini
represents, IMO, a perversion of the mother love theme in the books.
And no doubt she'll end up sacrificing herself in a vain attempt to
save her "child."

I'm also curious about the whole snake/Slytherin/Voldemort connection
(the first snake we see in the books, the python in the zoo, is not
evil, and snakes are connected in mythology with healing--the caduceus
of Hermes--as well as with deceit (the Garden of Eden). I don't know
enough about the subject to see where JKR is going with it. I'm hoping
to have a clearer idea after DH.
> 
Carol earlier in
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/165631>:
> 
> << (Does Ollivander know about the Horcruxes? What else would
qualify as "terrible but great"?) >>
> 
> Maybe the curse on the Hogwarts DADA professorship -- it works in
> quite a complicated way. Maybe making Inferii -- we don't know how
> difficult that spell is. Maybe breaking through a protective spell
> that was thought to be invulnerable. Maybe transforming some mighty
> and magically protected building into a termite and all the people
in it into bacteria in the termite's digestive system... <snip>

Carol responds:
LOL. But, seriously, I doubt that Ollivander knows about the curse on
the DADA position though he may have heard the rumors. He's old enough
to have taken the class before it was cursed. Inferi, maybe. In fact,
I think that might actually qualify as a "great but terrible" feat in
Ollivander's view (as would the Horcruxes, if he knew about them). But
all the murders and Crucios and Imperios would hardly count or the
imprisoned DEs would also be "great" wizards and I doubt that he holds
that view. Whatever Voldemort has done has to be what has made him, in
the eyes of the WW, the most powerful Dark wizard of the century. 

But seriously, what else could it be? What else besides Inferi might
qualify as "great but terrible"? I still think that Ollivander, who
knows how powerful that wand is and knows the symbolism or properties
of the wood and cores that he uses, probably suspects that Voldemort
created at least one Horcrux.

Celia cdayr wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/165761>:
> 
> << The Homorphus Charm: Hope for Remus and Bill? >>
> 
Catlady:
> I agree that the Homorphus Charm is real, because Lockhart stole his
exploits, not invented them. I don't agree that the Homorphus Charm is
a cure for lycanthropism, because if it were, someone would have tried
it on Lupin by now, either his parents, who 'tried everything' or his
clever friends who became Animagi for his sake.
> 
> At first I thought it might put an end to the werewolf
transformations permanently, but at the cost of tremendous brain
damage to the person, but then I realized (as Carol has mentioned)
that it might be the same spell that Black and Lupin used to make
Pettigrew leave his rat form.
> 
> So now I think that it turns the transformed human back into his/her
human form for only a few moments. That's not a cure for lycanthropy,
but it is long enough for the villagers to recognize one of their
neighbors. Now that they know who the werewolf is, they can deal with
him while he is still a mere human. <snip>

Carol:
Exactly. And the name of the charm supports this interpretation:
Homorphus = homo (Latin for man or human being) plus morphus
(pseudo-Latin from the Greek morphe, change or transform)--Can't do
the long mark over the e from Yahoo groups, sorry.

Houyhnhnm wrote in
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/165875>:
> 
> << The DADA position might bring out the worst in Snape, but making
him head of Slytherin House wouldn't? Sending him back out as a spy
among the Death Eaters wouldn't? >>
> 
Catlady:
> Rowling was being sneaky when she said that. At the time she said
it, everyone assumed that Dumbledore meant that giving Snape the DADA
job would be like giving an alcoholic a bartending job. Not until we
read HBP did we learn that the curse on the DADA job was real, not
just a student rumor, and had begun long before Harry discovered
Hogwarts. There has been much discussion on list about how that curse
works, apparently by using the person's own secret flaws against them.
That's pretty clear for Lockhart, whose secret flaws were that he was
a liar, a braggart, a thief of accomplishment, and not actually good
at any magic except Memory Charms. And for Lupin, it exposed his
secret of being a werewolf and his flaw of being careless about
werewolf precautions. So when Dumbledore said he was afraid that the
DADA position would bring out the worst in Snape, he meant that the
curse on the DADA position would reveal ('bring out') Snape's secrets
and flaws.
>
Carol:
And yet, both Snape and Dumbledore appear to *want* people to think
that DD won't give him the course for that reason. Snape tells
Bellatrix, right before he actually receives the position (and, IMO,
know that his receiving it depends only on Slughorn's acceptance of
the Potions position) almost exactly what JKR says in that misleading
little interview segment: "He wouldn't give me the Defense Against the
Dark Arts position. Seemed to think it might, ah, bring about a
relapse . . . tempt me into my old ways" (27).

The hesitation and the "seemed to think" suggest that Dumbledore
doesn't think any such thing, and if he really did, he would certainly
be foolish to give Snape the DADA position just as Voldemort is coming
to power again. But we know that this story can't be true; Dumbledore
trusts Snape "completely," and that trust includes giving him the
cursed position just at the point when he mosts needs a really good
teacher in the post. But he must have other motives as well since he
knows he'll lose Snape at the end of the year (and he takes the
precaution of hiring someone who can replace him not only as Potions
master but as HoH of Slytherin once that happens).

We see that the position does *not* bring out the worst in Snape or
tempt him into his old ways. Far from teaching the students Dark magic
or preventing them from learning useful defensive measures, he's
teaching them exactly what they need to defend themselves against
Voldemort and exactly what they're facing (the horrible posters on the
walls, for one). Note that Hermione, who suggested that Harry form the
DA in OoP because Umbridge was not teaching them to defend themselves,
makes no such suggestion in HBP. Nor do any of the DA members, even
Ron, suggest its continuance. Neville misses it but doesn't ask for
Harry's help with DADA. Luna also misses it, not because she misses
the DADA lessons but because the DA was "almost like having friends."

So Snape's words to Bella, like JKR's to her questioner, are
misdirection. Whatever Dumbledore is afraid of, it's not that putting
Snape in that position will stir up old loyalties to Voldemort. IMO,
he doesn't put Snape in that position until the need for his expertise
is paramount, and until the need for his exposure as a supposedly
loyal Death Eater becomes more important than keeping him at Hogwarts.
(That his DE past is not public knowledge is shown by Rita Skeeter's
article criticizing Dumbledore's hiring decisions. She mentions the
werewolf, the half-giant, and the delusional ex-Auror, but she omits
the ex-Death Eater. Surely, Snape would have topped the list if she'd
known about him.)

Carol, happy to have found so many things to respond to in a Catlady post!