Hermione and 'Evil is a strong word' (WAS Re: CHAPDISC: HBP30, The White Tomb)

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 165976

 > zgirnius:
> The reliability of Dumbledore's judgments of people are suspect on 
> these grounds, but not his statements of fact. 
> 
> Let's review my proposed list of reasons Hermione might have for 
> trusting Snape, just to see how many of them are independent of 
> Dumbledore's judgment of Snape's character:

zgirnius, earlier:
> 1) Saving Harry from Quirrell in PS/SS

zgirnius now:
Not tainted by possibility Dumbledore is bad judge of character

a_svirn:
I did acknowledge that, didn't I? Though, as I said, Dumbledore 
himself cast a decidedly ignoble light on Snape's motives. You'd 
think it would have been enough that a student was in danger, 
wouldn't you. Apparently not: in Dumbledore's opinion Snape only 
saved Harry because of the old debt to his father. 

zgirnius:
> 2) End of PoA - I think she would believe him sincere in his
comments to her and Harry in the Shack - in other words, he was after
Sirius because he was the traitor.

zgirnius:
Would rely on Hermione's own judgment. She was there and formed her
own opinion, which she has not shared. It *could*, therefore, be
favorable. At any rate, it has nothing to do with Dumbledore, who did
not discuss his view of Snape's actions with Harry at all in PoA.

a_svirn:
He was also after revenge, which for Hermione would have been hard to 
miss. Until the end of HBP she might have believed that it wasn't the 
main motive, but after he killed Dumbledore? Hard to imagine why he 
should hate traitors as a class.  

zgirnius:
> 3) Revealing his Dark Mark to Fudge

zgirnius:
A fact witnessed by Harry, not subject to an error of interpretation
by Dumbledore.

a_svirn:
And what does it tell us? At the moment it looked like something to 
support Dumbledore, but he must have been equally convincing when he 
finally got to Voldemort. 

zgirnius:
> 4) Teaching Harry Occlumency (I think she did read up on it, and has
reason to believe Harry's reaction is typical in the early stages)

zgirnius:
Again, a fact.

a_svirn:
It is certainly an indisputable fact that the lessons were a failure. 
And that because of that failure Voldemort managed to possess Harry's 
mind. 

zgirnius:
> 5) Not providing Umbridge with Veritaserum in OotP

zgirnius:
She was in the office when he claimed to have none. If Hermione
judged that he was lying to Umbridge, that would be a judgment based
on her own impressions and logic.

a_svirn:
So what? Umbridge might be vile, but she is not a DE. Why would  
Snape want to help her at all? If he did, he would have only upset 
Voldemort's well laid plans. 

zgirnius:
> 6) Sending the Order to the MoM (and checking on Sirius)

zgirnius:
She knows someone sent the Order - she was there. Dumbledore is the
source of the information that it was Snape, but who else could it
have been? He was the only Order member at Hogwarts. For this to be
false, Dumbledore would need to have lied AND there would have to be
something complicated going on.

a_svirn:
ah, but there is a little question of timing. Just how long did Snape 
spend in the forest? In fact, did he go there at all? He certainly 
didn't waist his time on rescuing Umbridge. 

zgirnius:
7) Saving Dumbledore's life

zgirnius:
Dumbledore is quite possibly the most powerful, skilled, and
knowledgeable wizard in the Potterverse. If he states that a powerful
curse was killing him, I think that he is to be believed. If he
states he was not able to save himself alone, that, too, must be
believed. These are statements of fact in his area of expertise.
Nothing we have seen suggests he was losing his touch as a
wizard/expert on magic, even if he did misjudge the character and
loyalties of one Severus Snape.

a_svirn:
Well, yes, there is that. Then again, Snape didn't quite cured him 
from that powerful curse. Dumbledore hand remained black and dead, 
and he himself acknowledged that his reflexes were not as they had 
been. Perhaps Snape actually sabotaged the treatment just a slightest 
bit?

 zgirnius:
8) Saving Katie Bell's life

zgirnius:
This is something Dumbledore tells Harry. I don't see why he would
lie about who treated Katie Bell, <snip>

a_svirn:
And what does it prove? Of course, he did his best to save Katie, 
just the thing to be on a good wicket with Dumbledore. To prove his 
usefulness. I imagine he cured quite a number of death eaters as well 
and for the same reason.