Dumbledore: Puppeteer

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 165979

> >>Bart:
> I'm currently rereading the series, but looking for something in   
> particular: How much is Dumbledore manipulating the situation. For 
> example, it is clear in the first book (Dumbledore as much as      
> admits it) that he was manipulating Harry into stopping the theft   
> of the Uncertain Adjective Stone. How much is not clear, but it    
> would explain quite a few of the coincidences (and throughout the   
> books). 

Betsy Hp:
And see, IMO, it makes *so* much more sense if Dumbledore *didn't* 
mean for Harry to go after the Stone.  Because if Dumbledore did mean 
for Harry to stop the theft, he's not only a puppeteer; he's a 
moron.  Which is a pretty scary combination. <g>

(I've discussed my view point on this many times, most recently here, 
for folks who care to look:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/163921
I'd suggest going up and down that particular thread.)

> >>Bart:
> Dumbledore's initial goal is clear: to prepare Harry to fight and   
> win against Voldemort.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I also have issue with Dumbldore creating a soldier!Harry.  For one, 
he does a horrible job.  Harry is good at DADA, but he's not really 
the scariest guy with a wand.  Heck, compared to the Marauders, young!
Snape and young!Tom Riddle, Jr., Harry is downright backward.

And honestly, the fact that Dumbldore doesn't teach Harry any magic 
at all during his little lessons in HBP (martial or otherwise) 
suggests to me that his goal isn't to create a warrior, and it never 
has been.

It seems to me that for the most part Dumbledore is working to 
protect Harry, not really prepare him to face Voldemort.  I think 
that it's not until OotP that Dumbledore really decides, reluctantly, 
that Harry is going to step onto the field.

> >>Bart:
> <snip>
> I think that the meeting up with the Weasley's was a happy         
> coincidence, but I have a hunch that becoming friends with Hermione 
> was not. Hermione just knew too much, more than she could get from 
> books. She is locked into a rumor mill while Harry and Ron seem to 
> be out of the loop; ... <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I'd really like some examples of this.  When does Hermione know stuff 
she couldn't have gotten from either books or her newspaper 
subscription?

I'm also curious as to whether you mean Dumbledore somehow arranged 
for Hermione to get trapped in the bathroom with a troll (and for Ron 
and Harry to hear about it) or if you think she's a sleeper agent 
herself?

> >>Bart:
> Many of the too-convenient coincidences in the books can be         
> explained by the fact that they were not coincidences at all, but   
> manipulation on the part of Dumbledore to manipulate Harry into    
> putting his nose where it does not belong, with visions of a       
> greater good.

Betsy Hp:
Like what for example?

> >>Bart:
> While I don't think that Dumbledore ordered Snape to be nasty to   
> Harry, he certainly took full advantage of Snape's dislike of      
> Harry. Based on the later revelations of Snape's skills at         
> Leglimancy, time after time Snape has caught Harry red-handed, and 
> let him get away (for example, in COS, Snape knows damned well that 
> Harry let off the firecracker in potions class, and lets it slide; 
> although he has no physical proof, he DOES have probable cause to   
> get it). 

Betsy Hp:
But what does Dumbledore *gain* from the enmity between Snape and 
Harry?  It seems more that it's a burden for any plans Dumbledore 
might have had (the Occlumency fiasco, for example). 

> >>Bart:
> Harry is manipulated through the books to break the rules if it    
> serves a higher purpose, but not for personal gain or pleasure. In 
> other words, he is being trained as an operative, but indirectly.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
But what sort of operative?  Not a martial one, it seems like.  And 
Harry seems to have entirely the wrong personality to be a spy.  So 
what sort of boy was Dumbledore trying to build?

Betsy Hp (enquiring minds want to know! <g>)