Dumbledore's judgment (WAS Hermione and 'Evil is a strong word')

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 165994

> Magpie:
<SNIP>
> But the kind of judgment we mean here refers to the times when 
Dumbledore 
> takes the time to focus on someone and study them, give them a 
chance. When 
> he does that he does seem to get a feel for them--a correct feel. 
He might 
> still make mistakes with them, but he'll generally understand his 
mistakes 
> afterwards and they'll not be about missing their core character. 
His 
> mistake with Sirius wasn't that he didn't understand Sirius it was 
that he 
> though he could deal with something better than he did--just as he 
claims he 
> did with Snape and Occlumency. He wasn't surprised at Snape's 
reaction, he 
> just hoped he'd do better. I suspect that if Dumbledore was 
absolutely 
> needing to bank on either of them he wouldn't press to hard on 
those sore 
> spots. That's why he can trust Snape completely and also not be 
surprised 
> when he fails at something like teaching Occlumency after Harry 
saw into his 
> Pensieve. Or can trust Hagrid with his life even after he blabbed 
about how 
> to get past Fluffy.
> 
> That's more the kind of thing, it seems to me, that we're talking 
about with 
> Dumbledore's second chance with Snape. Could he be suckered in by 
a fake 
> tale of remorse? That's the type of thing Dumbledore doesn't seem 
to fall 
> for. Even when he's got fakes in the school like Fake!Moody and 
Lockhart it 
> doesn't seem like Dumbledore's being played as gullible about 
their 
> character. With Moody he's basing his judgment on actual Moody. 
Carol 
> brought up Draco as someone who doesn't trust Dumbledore's 
judgment but I'd 
> also add him under the list of people Dumbledore seems to get once 
he sets 
> his mind to him. <SNIP>


Alla:

I think I see what are you saying here - distinguishing between DD's 
mistakes and his judgment on when he concentrated on somebody to 
study them.

I mean, I do think that he was wrong about Snape obviously, but I 
think I understand your argument.

But I am wondering where do you get that Dumbledore understood 
Sirius at all?

Could you elaborate on that?

It seems to me that Dumbledore did precisely that - misunderstood 
Sirius' core characteristics, period, no?

I mean, Dumbledore thought it possible that Sirius betrayed a man, 
whom he loved like a brother, thought so despite observing seven 
years of closeness between them, despite knowing that Potters took 
Sirius in, despite observing them ( supposedly) when they were in 
the Order ( the group of nearest comrades that DD supposedly lead).

DD seemed to be so **sure** that Sirius is capable of betraying his 
brother and his family that he deemed it possible to give evidence 
at the hearing ( okay, we don't know that he was not subpoenaed, but 
it is possible that he came forward voluntarily, no?)

And years after Dumbledore **still** seems to have no clue what 
Sirius is all about - not helping him somehow to be active on behalf 
of the Order, instead of being stuck in that House ( I do know that 
DD wanted Sirius alive, I do, I am just saying that Dumbledore seems 
to be very clueless of psychology, that Sirius' nature required 
something very different, etc)


So, I do disagree that DD is usually right when he concentrates on 
somebody. I think he was clueless about Sirius, I really do.


Ronin:
<SNIP>
 He thinks Snape is evil
> from the second he sees him. 
<SNIP>

Alla:

No, he does not. He thinks that Snape **had a gift** of keeping 
class quiet. That is before Snape attacks him IMO and despite that 
his scar hurt earlier. I think for eleven year old he was quite open 
minded personally.



Ronin:
<SNIP>
> This is not meant to be a debate of who's right and who's wrong. 
I'm only
> trying to give you my point of view on the subject so that you can
> understand how I reach MY conclusion. I wouldn't say I've been 
hoodwinked if
> it turns out that Snape is truly evil, just that one of my many 
theories was
> wrong.
> But if I turn out to be right, "neener, neener, neener...I told 
you so". lol
> 
> Just kidding.
><SNIP>


Alla:

Oh, LOLOLOL.  I would not say I had been hoodwinked either, if it is 
written well, believe me.

You are hilarious, Ronin. It is a true pleasure disagreeing with 
you :)