Snape's spying in VW1 (WAS: Re: Why DD did not ask Snape to kill him.)

[Zara]

No: HPFGUIDX 166136

> Dana now:
> Where is it canon that he spied first and then took up the job? He
> couldn't have spied without the job because defecting was no option,
> he needed to hide behind LV's orders to go to DD and be a spy for
> him, otherwise he would have been considered a traitor.

zgirnius:
Snape did not need to defect to spy on Voldemort. In fact, doing so 
would have prevented him from being an effective spy, since he would 
not longer receive confidential information from Voldemort or his 
fellow Death Eaters. To be a spy, all he needed to do was go to Death 
Eater meetings, associate as before with his Death Eater friends, and 
then tell Dumbledore all about what he learned in secret. Dangerous 
if discovered, sure, but Dumbledore indicated as much in his GoF 
testimony.

>Dana:
> Karkarov's hearing we saw in GoF was after LV's down fall not 
before.
> He wanted out of Azkaban after spending more then a year there and
> turned over information to get out.

zgirnius:
Here is Dumbledore's testimony at that hearing:

> GoF, "The Pensieve":
> "Snape has been cleared by this council," said Crouch 
disdainfully. "He has been vouched for by Albus Dumbledore."

> "No!" shouted Karkaroff, straining at the chains that bound him to 
the chair. "I assure you! Severus Snape is a Death Eater!"

> Dumbledore had gotten to his feet.

> "I have given evidence already on this matter," he said 
calmly. "Severus Snape was indeed a Death Eater. However, he rejoined 
our side before Lord Voldemort's downfall and turned spy for us, at 
great personal risk. He is now no more a Death Eater than I am."

zgirnius:
This establishes that Dumbledore believed Snape was spying *for him* 
before the Potters died. (An event that coincided with "Lord 
Voldemort's downfall"). 

If he started only after he began to teach, that was less than 2 
months before the Potters died. To some, myself included, it seems 
unlikely that Dumbledore would describe spying for a few weeks from 
the relative safety of Hogwarts as involving "great personal risk". 
Nor does it seem likely that, if this is indeed what Dumbledore means 
here, that the likes of Barty Crouch Sr. would be at all inclined to 
clear Snape of all charges based on such testimony. What useful info 
would Snape have obtained there in such a short time anyway?

Spying for a longer term and from within Voldemort's camp is a 
different kettle of fish. It is undeniably dangerous. Also, the 
number of dead or captured DEs on Karkaroff's list suggests that 
somehow, the Ministry or the Order was having success capturing DEs 
before Voldmeort's fall. Karkaroff was captured and sentenced to a 
term in Azkaban before Voldemort fell. The hearing was after, when 
Karkaroff decided to buy his freedom.

One possible reason for that success, is if someone internal to the 
organization was feeding them information. If that someone were 
Snape, it would explain the Ministry's willingnerss to clear him.