[HPforGrownups] Re: Hagrid and Draco

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 166152

>> Magpie:
> <SNIP>
>> Sure it would have been better if he didn't behave as he did, but
>> that's got nothing to do with Hagrid. Draco, in the end, is not the
>> one who's got the power at school. Hagrid has more. So he doesn't
>> also get to be the only child and the victim. He got his hippogriff
>> and his job. He has not managed to also get the respect of the many
>> students he teaches. I'm not going to blame that on other people,
>> especially when even the Trio who are trying to like him as a
>> teacher don't trust him. Draco's behavior throughout third year is
>> his own problem and it doesn't seem to be fooling anybody. Hagrid's
>> behavior is his own problem. However Hagrid feels, Draco's watching
>> out for himself in later classes.
>
> Alla:
>
> My only point is that Hagrid's hipogriff and his job were not
> supposed to be in danger in the first place IMO. Yes, Hagrid got
> them, but **not** in any thanks to Draco, no?

Magpie:
No, not in any thanks to Draco.  Draco can be judged for his behavior, but 
so can Hagrid. They are both reacting to each other, but they're not 
100%responsible for what the other person does.

Alla:
> In fact only thanks to Trio and Dumbledore IMO. I am also not sure
> what you mean that Draco's behaviour has nothing to do with Hagrid?

Magpie:
I meant that if Draco is acting like an ass that doesn't force Hagrid to do 
anything, especially not years later. Nobody would say Draco helped Hagrid 
hang onto his job, but he wasn't able to take it from him either.

Alla:>
> Hagrid is the one who suffers **because** of Draco's behaviour, no?
> Draco's behaviour directed **towards** Hagrid and Buckbeak.

Magpie:
Yes, Hagrid suffers due to Draco's--well, really more Lucius', but Draco is 
egging him on--actions. But if Draco is going to act like an ass Hagrid 
still has to choose what he's going to do. Especially four years later, I'm 
not seeing Hagrid's shortcomings as a teacher being controlled by Draco. The 
Malfoy plot is an early example of the fact that Hagrid finds it hard to 
teach well when he's under stress, and we'll see more later. That's one 
issue with Hagrid as a teacher. If it wasn't seen in PoA it would have been 
seen in GoF I would think.

Alla:>
> And it really did not seem to me that Hagrid had more power than
> Malfoys. It seemed to me that but for Harry and Hermione ( and of
> course DD) Buckbeak would have been dead and Hagrid fired.

Magpie:
Dumbledore is a powerful ally-Hagrid's power all comes from his position at 
the school, of course. Same with all the teachers. Draco could not get 
Hagrid fired. Years later Hagrid's the one with the authority in class and 
Draco's still under his authority. Just as in first year Draco was under 
Hagrid's authority in the forest. With authority comes responsibility.

Alla:
>
> As I said again, I do not think that Hagrid is a good teacher, but do
> I think that he could have been at least decent but for what hapened
> to him?

Magpie:
I don't see what the difference would be given what the students' complaints 
about Hagrid in canon are. How would Hagrid's not having a scare his first 
year due to an accident in class when he brought in dangerous animals and 
the ensuing legal proceedings make Hagrid somebody who isn't still making 
students annoyed and nervous by bringing in monsters and seeming to 
underestimate their danger?

Hagrid's personality, including the way he deals with stress, doesn't seem 
to me to have changed before and after third year. The exact issues everyone 
has with Hagrid as a teacher seem to me to be right there in PS/SS. It's the 
same wacky Hagrid before and after the Malfoy plot in PoA. The experience 
that Hagrid has been effected by the Malfoys (as well as other people), but 
it's much more been about himself.

-m