Comparing Secret Keeper plan and UV plan (Re: Why DD did not ask Snape)

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 166160

> Quick_Silver:
> Sorry that's probably my fault. The whole point of Sirius's plan was that he, Sirius, would
> be the one in danger (as the decoy for Peter)  and not James. But when everything went
> down James ended up dying. In HBP Snape takes the risk of dying (the now infamous UV) 
> but Dumbledore ends up dead. 
<snip>
> As for planning everything out...I'd say that Dumbledore and Snape did have a plan. For 
> this parallel I'd say that the UV was definitely planned out before had...not as a plan to
> get information but to save Draco. 

Jen:  Thanks for elaborating, I couldn't quite put it together the other night.  I do see the 
parallel now.  My only objection--if JKR is conciously setting up these two scenarios in a 
similar way--would be comparing the Fidelius to the Unbreakable and the reasons both 
were taken.  It's difficult for me to equate pledging to risk your own life out of loyalty and 
a desire to protect good friends and vowing to potentially kill another person in order to 
protect someone.

It's not that I think Dumbledore would care, or that he would doubt his immense 
brainpower could prevent a bad situation from occurring (or Snape believing the same), it's 
more a problem from the perspective of JKR's moral universe.  She places value on 
courage, friendship, sacrifice  & good magic.  The Unbreakable appears to be counter to 
those values.  I think protecting Draco is meant to be a good thing in this moral universe, 
and that Snape potentially risking his own life is meant to be a good thing.  Are those 
reasons good enough for the choice Snape made?  Is it morally okay to agree to potentially 
kill someone via a dark magic vow even if the reason a person is doing so is good and the 
man whose life is in question doesn't mind?   I'm not certain where she would place this 
situation on her continuum of morally correct behavior and I'm certain the Fidelius is 
intended to be seen as a morally good plan.

Magpie:
> I don't see the UV as being the only way to save Draco either--but then, neither was
> Peter as the Secret Keeper the only way to save James. The point is just that Snape
> decided to take the Vow and that he and Dumbledore were also trying to protect and 
> neutralize Draco.

Jen: The comparison would be between the original plans though, the Fidelius with Sirius 
and the UV with Snape.  Fudge said Dumbledore believed the Fidelius was the 'best chance'  
to safeguard the Potters; the Potters then agreed to the plan and chose Sirius.  It's not 
canon that the UV was directly or indirectly agreed to by Dumbledore, nor whether 
Dumbledore believed it was the best possible plan to protect Draco.  It's possible Snape 
made this choice entirely on his own.  I don't see the UV as comparable to Peter taking 
over as Secret Keeper because the Potters agreed to the change and they were the ones at 
risk.  

Magpie:
> LV is *not* targetting DD in HBP. He's targetting Draco. He doesn't expect Dumbledore 
> to die. He may indeed one day want Snape to kill Dumbledore, as Snape seems to imply 
>in Spinner's End, but his plan for sixth year probably isn't based on information that 
>Dumbledore is weak because it assumes that Dumbledore is strong--certainly strong 
>enough to easily take care of a would-be assassin like Draco.

Jen:  Targeting Draco and punishing Lucius is sweet revenge for LV, but it's equivalent to 
Lucius enjoying a spot of Muggle torture at the World Cup, an activity Voldemort derides 
by saying, 'Your exploits at the Quidditch World Cup were fun, I daresay...but might not 
your energies have been better directed toward finding and aiding your master?' (GOF, 
chap. 33, p. 640, Scholastic)

HBP is comparable in some ways to the structure of GOF, with the exception that Harry had 
some additional information about the Riddle House scene via his dream and he knows 
nothing about Spinner's End.  The deduction throughout GOF was that someone wanted to 
hurt or kill Harry, not that Voldemort's plan was to regain his body in order to kill Harry 
himself.  I'm expecting something similar to be revealed in DH--LV had more on the table 
than targeting Draco and Lucius. 

I put forward one possible plan here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/165257

Jen R.