DD death and Harry WAS: Re: Dumbledore as a judge of character ?

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 166187

Sherry:
> > > > It is the involvement of Harry. Because he would feel it was 
his fault Dumbledore died, and I don't think he could live with that 
or ever come to terms with it. <SNIP>
> > > > I don't think Harry should be one who kills, even 
accidentally.

Alla:
> > <snip>
> > I believe she was saying that she would not accept Harry being 
complicit in Dumbledore's murder. <snip>
> > That is not to say that JKR would not do it obviously, <snip>

Mike:
> I'm feeling compelled to point out that Dumbledore was the one to 
*voluntarily* drink the green goo. I must also point out that DD 
finished about third of the basin *before* Harry had to help him to 
drink the rest. I can't say definitively whether Harry (or JKR for 
Harry) would feel responsible for DD's death if DD did indeed die 
<love that aliteration :)> from the potion. So let's examine the 
evidence, shall we? :)

> For the sake of discussion, let's assume that DD died from the 
green goo.
*(snip)*
" Only one thing mattered: This was not a Horcrux. Dumbledore had
weakened **himself** by drinking that terrible potion for nothing."
< HBP p. 610, US Scholastic, Sep 06 printing, emphasis mine>
*(snip)*

Ceridwen:
I agree with Mike: that alliteration is great.  Also, I agree that, 
if DD died from the goo, then it was DD's call to make.  He wrung a 
promise from Harry to do everything he said without question, even to 
the extent of leaving him and fleeing, if that was what DD required 
of him.  Dumbledore is the expert in this scene, not Harry.  If 
Dumbledore says the potion will not kill right off, then Harry, 
novice that he is with this stuff, has to consider DD's word to be 
the expert's decision on the subject.

Okay, quick tangent: If DD had ordered Harry to leave him in the 
cave, how would this have affected the events surrounding the 
UV?  /tangent.

Thanks for the quote.  I've read it, but totally missed that 
implication.  However, we've seen Harry thinking things over and 
coming to very emotional conclusions.  He felt guilty over things he 
absolutely had no reason to feel guilt.  This is an emotional 
response, not a logical one, and the sort of response Harry has at 
times.  Maybe the enormity of his upcoming task will keep him busy 
enough not to think about the events surrounding Dumbledore's death, 
but maybe not.

I think it would be best if whoever tries to help Harry deal with any 
misgivings he may have, keeps in mind that Harry was not the expert, 
he was the pupil, and he was following his master's orders ('master' 
used to mean teacher, master of the subject), and stresses this every 
time Harry brings it up or seems preoccupied (assuming that he has 
already expressed feeling guilt in the matter before being 
preoccupied - of course no one can assume that he's thinking about DD 
if he hasn't mentioned dwelling on the cave, the goo, and his own 
possible involvement in weakening DD).

Emotions can cripple as much as injury can, if they're allowed to run 
free in someone's mind.  Logically, Harry may very well know he 
didn't do anything in the end but follow Dumbledore's orders, as he 
should have, being the novice in the situation.  The quote you 
provided shows that he already knows this.  But in the dark nights, 
when he's done as much as he could do at that point, the questioning 
emotions can come creeping, ready to hamstring him.

I'm not discounting the possibility that Deathly Hallows will show us 
a Dumbledore dead or worse (turning Inferus?  LV's soul portion 
released from his withered hand?), absolving Snape from culpability 
in DD's death.  This could very well cause an emotional crisis in 
Harry, which he will have to overcome with the help and strict logic 
of his friends.  This will also result in a crisis of soul for Harry -
 his hatred of Snape for the killing of DD will have to be 
reassessed, and this will be more difficult for him, I believe, than 
even contemplating his own possible involvement, innocent though it 
was, in Dumbledore's death.  But his feelings for Snape have been 
deteriorating since the first book.

So, to have Dumbledore die from the goo rather than from Snape's AK 
will tie two threads together: Harry's emotional guilt for events 
over which he had no control, and Harry's growing hatred for Snape.  
Many of us have speculated that he will have to get over his hatred 
for Snape in order to unleash his Love Power, since Love cannot exist 
in its perfect state along with hatred: maybe Harry will have to stop 
second-guessing events and casting himself as the guilty party, too, 
before he is completely free to face LV with this Love.  If he thinks 
he's guilty for things like Sirius's or Dumbledore's deaths, he won't 
have the ability to love *himself* enough to unleash this power.

Ceridwen, merely speculating.