Hagrid the animal abuser/The uses of beasts in fables

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 166194

> Magpie:
> Actually Hagrid's instructions weren't very specific on the 
subject of 
> insults. He just started, iirc, by saying "don't insult 'em or 
it's the last 
> thing you'll do" when Draco possibly wasn't listening. Not 
listening was 
> certainly Draco's own decision, but it's also not unusual. A 
teacher more in 
> control, like Sprout, is more specific and repeats it to make sure 
all the 
> kids understand the exact danger.
<BIG SNIP>

Alla:

Yes, more experienced teacher would have repeated, probably. But 
even with what Hagrid said, all kids understood clear enough, no?

And I am really not sure how more specific Hagrid could have been. 
Do not insult them or you get hurt, for example sounds to me less 
specific than what he said, because he pretty much IMO implied that 
you get hurt badly

Magpie:
 So Draco is at fault, but all the 
> kids--including the Trio--see the danger in the class as excessive 
and 
> connected to Hagrid himself as well. They don't feel that way 
about 
> Professor Grubbly-Plank. Draco's provoking the hippogriff isn't 
necessarily 
> any more conscious than Neville blowing up his cauldrons. He, too, 
is given 
> instructions--his on the board, I think--and doesn't follow them.

Alla:

I disagree. Draco to me does not **want** to follow the instructions 
and Neville wants, but cannot, so to me Draco's not following is 
much more deliberate than Neville. You big ugly brute to me sounds 
like wanting to insult Buckbeak.

But I am glad we agree that Draco was at fault. :)


Magpie:
 That 
> happens in classes. (And if any kid is going to be insulting it's 
obviously 
> Draco--if hippogriffs attacked upon being corrected I would have 
been 
> hovering over Hermione knowing her nature.) 

Alla;

LOLOLOL. That happens yes, but indeed it happened only to Draco, 
everybody else listened and managed okay, no?

> Magpie:
> I based my idea on being told, iirc, that Malfoy was talking to 
someone else 
> when Hagrid said the thing about insulting. Many people take it as 
a fact 
> that Malfoy did not hear him because of that. I can take it as 
ambiguous, 
> though, that maybe it was as you describe here. As is mentioned 
above 
> regarding Neville, it's not unusual for kids in a class to not 
follow 
> directions.

Alla:

Ambiguous? Malfoy was talking to someone else, so he did not hear. 
How can it be ambiguous description? You mean he was listening to 
Hagrid and talking at the same time? I guess that can be, but from 
my experiences personally if I am talking to someone else, I am very 
unlikely to hear teacher's instructions. IMO of course.


Magpie:
 But I don't think the seemingly very widespread negative 
> opinions we hear about regarding Hagrid's class and Hagrid as a 
teacher come 
> down to all kids thinking they're immortal and blaming Hagrid. On 
the 
> contrary, they're more aware of their mortality than he is.

Alla:

Here I agree. As I keep repeating I believe Hagrid is a very flawed 
teacher, I am just rather convinced that whatever potential he may 
have had, was killed rather nicely by Malfoy behaviour during that 
lesson and afterwards.

Maybe that means that potential was not that high in the first 
place, if that took one little bastard to do that, but given 
Hagrid's history I am not surprised that it did happen ( IMO of 
course).


Magpie: 
> Malfoy learns that he must listen to everything Hagrid says and 
that it 
> would probably be a good idea to consider the danger more extreme 
than 
> Hagrid makes it sound if he didn't get the danger here (and at the 
risk of 
> being accused of defending Draco too much, I do think that 
Hagrid's delivery 
> of that instruction was intentionally--on the part of the author--
far too 
> casual for a teacher in this situation).

Alla:

Good for Malfoy that he learns that. :) Would be nice if he came to 
class with the mindset to learn something and not sabotage the 
teacher. It is of course an interpretation, but I believe that since 
we have nothing else to go on, his remark is a valid indication that 
he intended to do that.

And as to Hagrid's instruction, see above. I do not believe it was 
too casual, but maybe he needed to repeat, that is what mentor would 
have helped, yes IMO.

But here I agree that DD left him to his devices, just as he did 
Snape. Not liking that, at all.


Magpie:
 Draco does show signs of doing that 
> rather comically when he's frantically asking people if he missed 
anything. 
> Whatever malicious ways he tried to get revenge on Hagrid, and 
however much 
> he wants to keep bringing it up against him, the action and 
consequence 
> lesson was clear--he got cocky, missed something, got hurt. He 
won't admit 
> it, but he did learn one good lesson from it because he knows he's 
got to 
> take care of himself in class that way. That seems to be the 
attitude of all 
> the kids in the class. Malfoy, too, was inexperienced the first 
day.

Alla:

Malfoy had the bad attitude towards Hagrid since his first year IMO. 
I find it hard to believe that his attitude on that lesson was due 
to inexperience. I think it was malicious through and through, not 
just in part. IMO of course.


Magpie: 
> Hagrid needed to learn to make the danger a priority, and he 
doesn't really 
> do that because, as others have pointed out, he just doesn't 
understand the 
> pov of people who have this problem. He's not very able to adjust, 
so the 
> kids adjust to him.

Alla:

True, he did not learn that. I believe it was in part because he was 
hurt too deeply that year, that is all. 

JMO,

Alla