A Postscript (Was: Re: A Clarification on Trial / Hearing and Other Legal Issues

[Goddlefrood]

No: HPFGUIDX 166213

Goddlefrood snipping Carol's latest post on this matter in 
it's entirety, due to my suspicion that if you are getting 
this current post, you will have read all previous posts in 
this thread ;)

In respect of the issue raised by Carol on my statement of 
fact, my point in my previous was simply that we have 
insufficient data to determine what the function of the Head 
of the Department of Magical Law Enforcement is in respect of 
that office's position vis a vis the Wizengamot.

I suspect (awful word, but often used) that like a majority 
of Courts or Tribunals the Chairmanship (or President, or 
howsoever your preference is to express it) changes. I also 
apprehend that I point to the fact that at the time of the 
hearings seen in GoF it is a reasonable extrapolition that 
the hearings had only recently been reinstituted (remembering 
what happened to poor Sirius only a year or so earlier).

On Umbridge now, I have not analysed her position (s) at 
Hogwarts. This is largely because she is not a character of 
whom I am fond. I could, but probably will not. I believe JKR 
when she says that she will allow us to meet Dolores again, so 
that she (JKR) can have some torturous fun (paraphrase of her). 
I look forward to it from a reader's perspective :)

The only issue in respect of Dolores that I have not seen 
explored adequately, and I haven't read all of fandom, so say 
this advisedly, is that Dolores may in some way have a 
connection to the Longbottoms, but will say no more just now 
except for the word "toad". ;)

It is a fact, as Carol points out, that the hearing was 
originally to have taken place in Madam Bones's office. I 
addressed that point in 166206 - briefly "ought to be" not 
"is", as I believe I put it and my analysis was only in 
respect of what *did* happen, not in respect of what *ought 
to have* happened.

Seems I also addressed Carol's point regarding the Chairman's 
function in my earlier, notwithstanding what Robert's Rules of
Order may say. I looked at a site containing a precis of these

http://www.robertsrules.org/

and it is, as I knew, relative to Parliamentary Procedures. I 
wanted to refresh my memory and confirm my suspicion that it 
was not relevant for the purposes of my previous post.There 
are, as I am sure you know, three branches of Government in 
the RW, the judiciary is but one. The said Rukes relate to 
legislative matters and procedures for their conduct (a 
Parliament, in the US the Congress and Senate, being the 
legislative branch). So I chose not to engage further as I 
was writing from a judicial perspective, hope that satisfies. 
I am aware that the Congress and Senate in US conduct 
quasi-judicial proceedings, before I am engaged on that.

As I also mentioned in 166206 (or perhaps in one of the 
earlier), the trials seen in GoF appear dissimilar from 
Harry's hearing. I leave that point there, while again 
stating that there is not enough evidence in canon to go on 
to form an adequate conclusion (for me) and refer to other 
comments above.

The other matters raised in Carol's latest on list post 
suggest that our views differ and that my explanations were 
less than opaque. My outline of the mechanics of the hearing 
are in my four (now) posts on the matter (a busy day for me) 
on the list, and I can only commend them to you. There is no 
Council of Law as such, as Carol put it, other than legal 
reporting services, of which I am aware, so I fail to see 
where that came from.

There was no jury, it was a Wizengamot. I say this because 
there was no one present with the Judge's function of arbiter 
of law, IOW no one explained to the Wizengamot's members 
anything in respect of the relevant law under which the 
hearing was conducted. Madam Bones was, however, cast in the 
role of legal adviser to the proceedings, as I mention 
elsewhere.

The word "Decree" in canon also suggests to me that there is 
no distinct legislature in the WW, unlike in the RW. I say 
this from deep knowledge of decrees. Also, due to certain 
matters in canon alluded to by Carol, there is a clear 
indication that the Wizengamot makes the WW's laws, as well 
as hearing complaints and charges under those laws and, 
therefore, is less than independent, as a judicial body 
should be. Hope that point is clear.

It appears that the WW has no independent branches of 
Government, and at the end of the day, this appears to be 
why it's legal system, insofar as we have been shown, is 
in a mess (not a typical legal word ;)). (Thinking of Sirius 
again and some of the Draconian powers of Barty Crouch as 
exemplars).

Fudge had obviously had matters manipulated for his own 
purposes but how that happened, whether he or Dolores did 
the necessary manoeuvering to alter the conduct of the 
proceedings against Harry, I will not speculate on. That it 
*was* done is clear, at least to me.

Goddlefrood, without malice and now disrobing once more, 
having forgotten to do so in the course of his previous.