vetting MoM/Hagrid/Trelawney/9-3/4 /Killing/Tienanmen/Hypocrisy/Hiding/Legal

[Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)]

No: HPFGUIDX 166247

I dunno what's gotten into me this weekend, but it seems almost all my
comments are nit-picks. I hope I don't sound like a know-it-all or a
scold and no one thinks I'm criticizing them.

Pippin wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/165942>:

<< IMO, the curse does not tamper with fate. I agree with Catlady that
it simply forces its victim to divulge whatever secrets make him
unworthy of his office. That would make it the perfect tool of revenge
for Voldemort, denied the position because he was unworthy. But it
wouldn't work on, say, the Minister of Magic, or the Headmaster,
because candidates for those offices are (one presumes) vetted far
more thoroughly, and the skeletons in their closet are found out in
the selection process. >>

The idea that all Headmasters of Hogwarts and all Ministers of Magic
were adequately vetted seem quite optimistic to me. In our Muggle Real
Life, there are constant scandals about people in high position having
done something that one would expect to have been turned up in the
vetting process -- the recent death of Thomas Eagleton (I hadn't
realised he was from Missouri) inspired media attention to his short
tenure as George McGovern's running mate in 1972, which came to an
abrupt end because journalists immediately discovered and reported
that he had received professional treatment for depression. Something
which McGovern's politicos should have learned and told him BEFORE the
selection. Some old Dems took that as more evidence of the
incompetence of McGovern's campaign leaders, who had shut out all the
loyal long-time party hacks who had supported other candidates in the
primaries. But it keeps happening to more competent politicos as well. 

And not just politicos -- Aldrich Ames and Robert Hansen kept passing
security checks.

And I'd expect lack of adequate vetting to be even more prevalent in
the wizarding world, which seems to have quite a lack of investigative
journalism, reducing the motivation to learn things BEFORE the
newspapers do, and also seems to have quite a lack of public political
campaigns -- it seems that the Minister of Magic is selected by a
small group of insiders (behaps the Wizengamot) and of course the
Headmaster of Hogwarts is selected by a small group, the Board of
Governors. As the members of the small group know personally all the
candidates, they are much less likely to be swayed by the fruits of
"opposition research". 

Was Armando Dippet 'worthy' to be Headmaster of Hogwarts? We know that
he was easily fooled and he seemed indecisive, but he may have been
excellent at attracting skilled teachers and keeping them from
quarrelling with each other.

Was Cornelius Fudge "worthy" to be Minister of Magic? It appears he
was dim-witted and arrogant and put far too much value on so-called
purity of blood. Maybe he was chosen because maybe he had previously
insisted on trials, in contradiction to Bartemius Crouch, and in risk
to his political career while Crouch was ascendent, or maybe he was
chosen because his patron Lucius Malfoy greased the electors.

Irishshedevil wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/165947>:

<< I was just wondering, what do you guys think will happen to Hagrid
in the last book? >>

The stages of the alchemical transformation that produces the
Philosopher's Stone were called nigredo (blackening), albedo
(whitening), and rubedo (reddening). According to John Granger's
alchemical theory of HP, OoP was the nigredo book (in which Harry,
like the ingredients, was confined in a pressure cooker and tortured
by being cooked dry) and Sirius BLACK died in that book; then HBP was
the albedo book (IIRC the material is mixed with water and distilled)
and ALBUS Dumbledore died; so 7 will be the rubedo book and RUBEUS
Hagrid will die.

I would prefer him to marry Madame Olympe and move to Beauxbatons and
care for her Abraxan horses. There's no reason he needs to stay at
Hogwarts now that DD is dead. That would also please the people who
want someone else to be COMC professor at Hogwarts.

Draeconin wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/165968>:

<< The only reason I can see for Dumbledore hiring [Trelawney] was to
keep track of her in case she had another prophecy after the first.
Was that good enough reason to inflict her on students who might have
actually learned something under another teacher? >>

It is possible that some students, for example Lavender and Parvati,
did learn fortune-telling from Trelawney. I find her personal style
(being 'pretentious' and a 'fake') very annoying, but other than that,
she sounded more like a teacher than many of the other Hogwarts
professors do. "Now, I want you all to divide into pairs. Collect a
teacup from the shelf, come to me, and I will fill it. Then sit down
and drink, drink until only the dregs remain. Swill these around the
cup three times with the left hand, then turn the cup upside down on
its saucer, wait for the last of the tea to drain away, then give your
cup to your partner to read. You will interpret the patterns using
pages five and six of Unfogging the Future. I shall move among you,
helping and instructing."

JLyon wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/165980>:

<< a rather loud-mouthed mother complain about muggles and ask her
children what the gate number is for the train. This is what -- her
34th time coming to or arriving at gate 9 and 3/4? This is ingrained
in her almost at the level of instinct. >>

But isn't asking questions to which one already knows the answer the
normal way of making conversation with children (in this case, Ginny)?

Dana wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/166042>:

<< as we have never heard of one person, in the entire series, that
died at the hand of an Order member (traitors excluded). >>

In GoF, in the Pensieve scene, Karkaroff named Evan Rosier as a Death
Eater. ""Rosier is dead," said Crouch. "He was caught shortly after
you were, too. He preferred to fight rather than coming quietly, and
was killed in the struggle."

"Took a bit of me with him, though," whispered Moody to Harry's right.
Harry looked around once more, and saw him indicating the large chunk
out of his nose to Dumbledore."

Moody was an Order member as well an Auror in the first war against
Voldemort, and that bit of dialog strongly suggests that he killed Rosier.

Kemper wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/166109>:

<< In a first world Wizarding government, it is easier and more cost
effective to discredit or ignore a powerful, famous and dissident
Wizard voice than it is to martyr the Wizard. The Chinese MoM could
run Harry over with a broom in Tienanmen Square, but that sorta thing
wouldn't happen in Britain. >>

You are assuming a high degree of similarity between the wizarding and
Muggle society in any given geographic area. Of course, there is some
similarity due to Muggle-borns, half-bloods, and mixed marriages, but
there is no innate reason for wizarding countries to have the same
governmental system or even the same geographic borders of the Muggle
countries of the same name -- there is absolutely no logical reason
why North American wizards should be the only wizards in the world who
play Quodpot instead of Quidditch except that JKR thought it was a
cute parody.

Lupinlore wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/166117>:

<< So, what would happen if, as some might have wished, Harry had been
called on the carpet in front of DD about his behavior in potions.
Would not a logical - if controversial - response have been, "Oh,
lieing is only acceptable at the Wizengamot? Oh, I get it, it was
RIGHT but HARD to lie to the Wizengamot? Ahh, looked real hard to me.
Not that I'm ungrateful, mind you, but give me a break!" >> 

I guess this is all an example of Dumbledore's (and presumably JKR's)
belief in the usefulness of certain 'Slytherinish' actions by
'chivalrous' Gryffindors.

Ceridwen wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/166147>:

<< The Potters had only been in hiding with the Secret Keeper in place
for a week when they were attacked and killed. If they were ready to
go into hiding at the time of Harry's christening according to JKR,
the Creatrix of this universe, then how were they hiding before Peter
Pettigrew became their Secret Keeper? Or did they wait a while before
having Harry christened? >>

I believe the Potters tried a number of methods of hiding before
resorting to Fidelius. Perhaps their first attempt was pretty feeble,
just renting a Muggle flat under the names of James and Lily Potter
and pretending to be Muggles (with forged money and documents). Maybe
they quickly learned, either from DD's spy network or by being
attacked by DEs, that they had been found. Then they might have tried
again to pretend to be Muggles, this time changing their names and
faces and using other magic. (In one of her Q and As, JKR said that
the reason that the Ministry couldn't find Sirius in GoF by sending
him an owl and following it was that there was an Unplottable Spell on
Sirius. If true, the Potters could do the same.) When they again were
quickly found, perhaps they tried a forest cave (but with more food
than the one Sirius used). 

I figure, every time they hid, they told Sirius and Remus and Peter
and DD and Hagrid how to visit them and bring supplies, and also kept
sneaking out themselves in disguise or under Invisibility Cloak to do
work for the Order. Since one of those trusted people was LV's spy, LV
would quickly learn how to find them in the new hiding place. But it
would take them a while to admit that there was a spy, claiming that
instead the DEs had been able to find them because they went out on
missions.

Goddlefrood explained the legal system in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/166188> and
mentioned:

<< This is merely a little levity on my part :), but allow me to
congratulate you for using an expression of which I was previously
unaware, that being "called on the carpet". The meaning itself is not
in issue, it is perfectly clear, but the phrase is puzzling. For
anyone interested here is a link I found to enlightenment:
<http://www.takeourword.com/TOW141/page2.html> >>

Thank you for the interesting post AND the etymological link. I love
etymology websites.

Carol wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/166196>:

<< wondering whether Hagrid "flew" to the hut on the island in SS/PS
on a Thestral, which flew back to the Forbidden Forest after dropping
him off >>

Could be, but I've been wondering since before we met the Threstrals,
since JKR said that clever readers could figure out where the flying
motorcycle is now, whether Hagrid rode the flying motorcycle to that
islet and left it there at least until DH.

Carol wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/166198>:

<< wondering whether Umbridge even bothered to inspect Binns since
she'd have a hard time firing a ghost >>

If Umbridge was 'magical enough' to be a student at Hogwarts, she
probably had Binns as a teacher and remembers that his students were
in no danger of learning anything from him.