Hagrid as Teacher/Crookshanks/Comparing Vow to Secret Keeper

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 166260


> Lana writes:
> 
> I do not agree with this completely.  While I don't think they 
learned 
> everything the could have, you can't tell me that those kids will 
leave that 
> school and not remember every single class with Hagrid.  What a 
memorable 
> experience.  Something happened in most classes that the kids will 
not 
> forget, so they will then remember the animals and what they did.  
Sounds 
> like a most effective way to get someone to remember something.  
Shock value 
> alone works magic.  Especially with kids.

Magpie:
Well, yes and no. Sometimes what they would remember is their 
teacher having his own troubles, or that he was very interested in 
Skrewts and they got burned by them. But yes, the kids obviously 
aren't completely clueless when they come out of his classes. 
Hagrid's issues as a teacher are never presented as the kids just 
being confused or whatever. 

> Lana writes:
> 
> I thought Grubby-Planks wanted the time off or something with the 
remaining 
> limbs?  Maybe I have the wrong teacher.  Anyway..  there are 
always more 
> qualified people out there, but with having Hagrid right there and 
with all 
> his knowledge of animals... I think it was a brilliant choice!  He 
knows all 
> about animals and it shows the true light and respect that DD has 
for him. 
> DD shows faith in Hagrids ability and knowledge.  It shows that 
just because 
> you don't have a degree you can still be useful.  Not to mention 
it supports 
> Hagrids role.  He is portrayed as the animal expert of exotics..  
If you 
> don't have anything to support that, it just doesn't come 
together.  I say 
> "well done" to JK for making Hagrid a teacher.  I think it was 
well deserved 
> and I think the students (minus the habitual complainers) will 
learn alot 
> and I don't think anyone will fail the exams with him teaching..

Magpie:
But JKR is making fun of Hagrid as a teacher as well--he's not 
presented as a brilliant choice any more than Trelawney or Snape or 
Binns is. He's another comic teacher the kids don't respect. It's 
not a case of Dumbledore giving a chance to somebody who has no 
degree but is a great teacher. If any teacher falls into that 
category--though not exactly since he is a Hogwarts graduate--it's 
Lupin. He's the one who has strikes against him that make other 
people not want to hire him because he's a werewolf but who has real 
skill as a teacher. Hagrid's often given jobs somewhat more out of 
loyalty, but that rarely translates into Hagrid doing a perfect job. 
If it was a choice between Lupin and Hagrid, I'd pick Lupin in a 
second no matter that Hagrid likes or knows more about animals. Just 
as Harry has to admit to himself he prefers Grubbly-Plank.

Dana:

Maybe Crookshanks did not react to Snape because Sirius was not
afraid of Snape. Sure he was afraid of the dementors but he tells
Harry, he should have left Snape to him. I think Sirius did fear 
Harry would try to kill him and not because he was afraid of dying 
but for Harry to becoming a killer for the wrong reasons and for him 
not knowing the truth and Peter still being a threat.

Magpie:
Crookshanks reacts to unsavory people, according to what we know 
about kneazles. That's why he reacted to Peter. Not because somebody 
is in danger. 

Dana:
The thing I can't get my head around is that it seems, when you look
at the scene in the hospital wing, that most of the Order members at
one point have asked DD about Snape's loyalties but it never made
Snape do anything to convince them why he is truly loyal to them but
we see him bend over backwards (lying or not) to assure the DEs will
believe him.

What is the difference? Or why is it different at all. The DEs could
not touch him as long as LV believes in him and the Order members did
not question his information because they trusted DD. LV is not
someone that can be made to think someone is not trustworthy if he
believed the person is loyal to him, LV trusts is highly conditional
anyway. Order members would not interfere with Snape out of respect
for DD but DEs would not do anything out of fear because you do not
tell LV, he is too stupid to see Snape is double crossing him and you
do not take out LV's spy if he did not gave you a personal order to
do so either. Snape's only concern would be LV no one else so why go
to the trouble of explaining himself to Bella?

Magpie:
It's different because the Order *didn't* mistrust Snape. They're 
just saying afterwards that they trusted him because DD did. There 
were few signs of actual suspicion of Snape that we actually saw, 
and that which we did see came from people who hated him like Harry 
and Sirius, and other Order members or friends of Dumbledore told 
them they were wrong. Snape *was* giving proof of his loyalty from 
their pov. His actions were convincing to them in ways they weren't 
convincing to Bellatrix, so he would never need to explain things to 
them. DEs by nature mistrust one another in ways Order members 
don't. And also Snape never did things that sent up red flags to 
them as he did to Bellatrix.

Dana:

Well was Harry really in danger? LV wants Harry for himself, why go
to all the trouble of getting the prophecy by luring Harry to the DoM
if he had given the order to finish Harry off right then and there.
Harry's friends where the only ones really in danger, because they
could be used to convince Harry to hand over the prophecy.

I do not think it is an indication that Snape was still loyal to DD
in OotP, he might have thought he would lose his cover to DD if he
did not do anything. There were too many witnesses for him to do
nothing. But, and of course this is speculation, LV might have
expected Snape to stay out of it completely, when he ordered him to
stay behind.

Magpie:
Why would not sending the Order to the MoM be an indication Snape 
wasn't loyal to DD? The fact that Harry went to the MoM was a 
complete surprise. He shouldn't have had any way of getting there 
whatsoever. Last Snape knew Harry was nowhere near London. Snape 
would have no reason whatsoever to know that Harry had gone 
anywhere. It was the perfect opportunity to let the DEs do their 
thing, and it didn't happen because Snape acted, even with no reason 
to and no Dumbledore at the school. There was no need for delay 
because he didn't have to act at all.

Dana:
I personally believe Snape is a man who likes his options open and 
that he might have indeed chosen LV's side but was still reluctant 
to close the door behind him completely. 

Magpie:
The trouble with this, for me, is that Snape is no longer a 
character whose actions lead to anything. He just turns the way 
anyone wants him to for the plot. He's LV's man, but there's no sign 
of it because he's mushy about it. The truth can't be revealed 
clearly, because you have to go through every action and explain 
whether Snape was leaning slightly to the right or left at that 
particular moment. In fact there is no one explanation, because he 
was changing his mind throughout the story. I think the reveal will 
be a lot more direct, in the style of, "I the Half-Blood Prince!" 
*cue dramatic music and cape swish*

-m



-m