The Graveyard and the Amphitheatre

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 166933

Carol earlier:
> 
> > Godric's Hollow is a partially or mostly Muggle village (Hogsmeade
is the only all-wizard village in Britain). Consequently, IMO, any
graveyard in Godric's Hollow (which I've always imagined to be in
Wales) would resemble that in Little Hangleton, which we encountered
in GoF.
> 
> > In any case, I see no reason to imagine a Roman ruin in Godric's
Hollow, much less a Roman graveyard. Nor, IIRC, did the Romans bury
their dead in anything resembling this circular structures with its
many archways. They used underground catacombs, to my knowledge. (I
wouldn't be surprised to find something of that sort at Hogwarts, but
not at Godric's Hollow.)
> 
Goddlefrood responded:
> 
> <snip> My point was that the theory I am expounding is somewhat
supported by what appears to be the ruins of Potter House in the
foreground. 

Carol again:
Okay. Now I see where Godric's Hollow comes in. But I think you're
jumping to conclusions. The rubble could be anything, and unless it
bears no relation to the background, I can't imagine anything
resembling a Roman amphitheater in the same vicinity.

Goddlefrood:
The analysis of the background was consequential, but I appreciate
there may be some ambiguity.

Carol:
Plenty of ambiguity or we wouldn't be discussing it. :-) But the
question in my mind is whether GrandPre is depicting the background,
the arena or amphitheater or whatever it is, as a faithful depiction
of what JKR describes or whether she's taken a great deal of poetic
license. Has she mixed up what's behind the Veil with what's in front
of it, changed the black veil to orange curtains, and made the
rectangular, roofed Death room round and open to the sky like a Roman
amphitheater, or is it someplace else altogether? Whatever other place
it may be, I don't see how it could be anywhere in the village of
Godric's Hollow.
> 
Goddlefrood:
> I made no suggestion as to what the structure may be, 

Carol responds:
You said that you didn't think it was an aqueduct, a point I agree
with. You also seemed to imply that it was a graveyard in Godric's
Hollow, which I don't agree with at all. Neither the Romans nor anyone
else that I know of buried their dead in such a structure. The good
Muggles of Godric's Hollow most likely bury theirs in a graveyard like
that in Little Hangleton, possibly in the churchyard.

Goddlefrood:
however the similarity to the Coloseum is interestingly noted.

Carol:
Thank you. Whatever the case with JKR, I think that *GrandPre* had the
coliseum or a similar structure in mind when she painted that background.

Goddlefrood:
> Unlikely to be such an edifice, however. <snip>
 
> The Romand prior to the acceptance of Christianity as the state 
religion by Constantine the Great did indeed use catacombs. Graves
became more prevalent thereafter. It seems highly improbable to me
that Roman architecture or burial practice will have any relevance.

Carol responds:
I know all that. But it isn't relevant because I'm not arguing that
the "edifice" is a Roman graveyard. I don't think it has anything to
do with a graveyard at all. It looks like an arena to me. 
> 
Goddlefrood:
> In the books the oldest suggested timeframe is approximately 1000
years ago, the founding of Hogwarts. 

Carol responds:
You're forgetting Merlin, who would have considerably preceded the
founding of Hogwarts (unless you follow T. H. White's chronology,
which I doubt that JKR does). But the structure in the background has
nothing to do with Hogwarts, as far as I can tell. We're talking about
two different things here--possible underground "hallows" resembling
catacombs that could conceivably conceal Horcruxes (see the Bloomsbury
children's cover, which could involve an excursion through such a
place, which need not be Roman to be underground)--and whatever the
amphitheater thing is behind Harry and Voldemort in the Scholastic
cover art. 

That building looks Roman to me--the founding date of Hogwarts has
nothing to do with it. And I'm quite sure that, in JKR's WW, wizards
and witches did not suddenly arrive in Britain a half century before
the Norman Conquest. The Druids were wizards, if I understand her
"history" correctly.
> 
Goddlefrood:
> My suggestion relative to the Graveyard I divine from the cover of
the American edition is that it may be the one that JKR referred to in
passing in a snippet from Alfonso Cuaron as being at Hogwarts itself.
<snip>

> This is then quite useful proof that there is indeed a graveyard at
Hogwarts. <snip>

Carol responds:
But what does a graveyard at Hogwarts have to do with the ruins of the
cottage at Godric's Hollow? And what do either of them have to do with
the amphitheater where the Harry/Voldie confrontation appears to take
place? I don't see any sign of a graveyard in that painting.

I'm not arguing against a graveyard at Hogwarts (which would not
necessarily preclude catacomblike tunnels placed in secret by the
founders themselves, which I think may be the "hallows" in the title
and may contain Horcruxes). I'm only saying that the scene as depicted
on the Scholastic cover does not appear to take place in any such place.

Goddlefrood:
> 
>The analysis by Carol of the amphitheatre is to be commended :)

Carol:
Thank you.
> 
> Goddlefrood who reminds you in signing out that the Romans left
Britain in the 400s AD and left the place to develop in a very
different way thereafter. 
>

Carol responds:
I do know when the Romans left Britain. I'm quite aware of the history
of Britain (which I find far more interesting than American history).
But that has nothing to do with my argument since *I'm not arguing
that there's a Roman ruin at Hogwarts or Godric's Hollow*. I'm only
pointing out that the background in the Mary GrandPre cover art
resembles a Roman amphitheater like the coliseum. Whether such
structures still remain in Britain, I don't know. We may not be
dealing with a real location, and GrandPre may be supplying
uncanonical details.

To sum up my previous argument, which you seem to have misunderstood,
I was saying that Grandpre's cover, which appears to depict a Roman
amphitheater or something like it, probably has nothing to do with a
graveyard, in or out of Godric's Hollow . A graveyard in GH would
probably be in a churchyard (cf. Little Hangleton). I think it's
possible that *Hogwarts* has something similar to the Roman catacombs,
which would be a good place to search for Horcruxes, but I don't think
that's what Grandpre is depicting. (It might have some connection to
the Bloomsbury children's cover, however.)

I don't know what location GrandPre is depicting, but it does not
appear to be Godric's Hollow. It may or may not be the Death room in
the MoM. (As I've said, I can't reconcile the details in the picture
with the descriptions in OoP. But the cover does seem to depict the
final confrontation with Voldemort, with an audience of shades or
shadows. And the background looks like a Roman amphitheater to me.

I am not saying that any such place exists in Britain today, or that
there is any such structure at GH or Hogwarts or that Hogwarts
coexisted with Roman Britain, which, of course, it didn't. That
Roman-style amphitheater *may* exist somewhere in the WW (most likely
not in Godric's Hollow), or it may be GrandPre's uncanonical and
imaginative depiction of a setting that resembles JKR's description
about as closely as Voldemort's Grinchlike or Dementorlike hands
resemble the long-fingered white hands Harry sees as his own in the
GoF dream.

Carol, apologizing for the repetitiveness of this post, but I'm trying
to clarify my arguments, which appear to have been misunderstood