Maraurders/he exists

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 168224

--- In http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/168202
> 
> Pippin:
> 
> But if everyone knew about Severus's badass reputation, the laughter
> wouldn't be growing as it became clear that Sirius and James were
> getting the upper hand. People would be worried, as Harry usually
> is when he gets the worst of Snape, that Snape would be having
> his revenge. But they're obviously not.

Mike:
Harry is a kid facing an adult, professor Snape. Big difference 
between that dynamic and Snivellus as just another schoolyard kid, 
whether or not he had a reputation. And Neri's point seemed to me to 
be that Lily doesn't care *what* Snape's rep may be. I'm not sure if 
I'm getting what you're driving at here. Snape wasn't a bully, so 
James must have been one?


 
> > Neri:
> > One problem with this argument: Snape never actually 
> > blames James of *stealing* his spell. He only blames him of 
> > "turning my inventions on me", which James could have easily 
> > done without any knowledge that the spell was originally Snape's 
> > invention. 
> 
> 
> Pippin:
> Except that Snape says, "Like your filthy father" and not, "Like 
> all the rest." Of course he could be wrongly blaming James <snip>

Mike:
But Harry's "filthy father" did use Levicorpus on Snape. That *is* 
what Snape accuses Harry of trying to repeat. It seems to be mostly 
conjecture, quite unsupported in canon, for James to be the one to 
have discovered this was Snape's invention.

<snip the canon synopsis, but it was clear and concise ;)>

> Pippin:
> But Lupin's opinion was and remains that James shouldn't have
> been judged harshly because everyone said it was cool and 
> besides it was a vogue.
> 
> Everyone thought it was cool???? Everyone was doing it???  
> 
> Gimme a break!
> 
> Any kid of mine that offered those shabby excuses would have 
> got himself grounded for an extra week. But it's a perfect example 
> of Lupin cutting his friends too much slack, IMO.

Mike:
I believe Lupin was responding to Harry's not-so-subtle inquiry of 
whether or not James may have invented the spell. I really don't see 
him making a judgement call on the harshness of the spell or the uses 
of it. What slack is Lupin cutting James in this conversation? Harry 
wasn't referring to any particular usage of it, and Lupin was just 
explaining that anybody could have been the inventor of the spell.

And his remark that "you couldn't move for being hoisted into the air 
by your ankle" seems to imply that it was used on him too. Yet he 
speaks about it "reminiscently". Not as if it was some big crime to 
have used it. Further, if James had been the one to have swiped it 
from Snape, do you think Lupin would have withheld that info from 
Harry? 

Don't answer that. What am I thinking? I forgot for a minute there 
who I was addressing. ;D Of course he would, eh Pippin? LOL

**************************************************
In http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/168130

> Pippin:
> <in reference to Lupin's Boggart lesson, Neville, and Snape>
Knowing this, there's something disturbing about, "Forward, 
Neville, and finish him off!" and "the boggart exploded, burst
into a thousand tiny wisps of smoke, and was gone."

What would we say of Lupin's method if Neville's boggart was Jews?

Mike:
You are undoubtedly making reference to Salazar Moses and his distant 
relative Tom Solomon Riddle, who incidently grew up to be the most 
feared Rabbi amongst the 13 tribes.

But after that rogue band of Hasidic Jews had confused and befuddled 
Neville's parents into becoming wandering Hari Krishna singers, 
unable to acknowledge Neville with his poor karma, I completely 
understand Neville's fear of Jews, especially those bearded ones.

This may be a slight stretch here, but I am searching furiously for 
some canon to back me up. ;)

*****************************************************
In http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/168201

> wynnleaf:
> But earlier, in POA, Snape also accused Harry of using Dark Magic.
Snape found Harry with a parchment in his hands which could, to use
Arthur's words, "think for itself" including identifying the holder
and insulting the holder knowing personal characteristics of the
holder. Snape also immediately identifies this object as clearly
Dark.

Mike:
Welll, by this logic, all of the paintings in the WW are Dark Magic 
since they can all do those things that the Map can do.

wynnleaf continued:
If we use the same logic as Snape's identifying of the effects of the 
cutting spell as Dark, we would have to say that Snape's assessment 
is just as seriously and honestly given as it was with Sectumsempra. 
Snape being a Dark Arts expert, we would have to believe his word on 
this just as much as his word on the cutting spell. Right?

Mike:
Wrong :-) Snape doesn't imply the Map of is "full of Dark Magic" 
until after it insults him, signing the insults with the MWPP 
monikers. Snape knows who Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot and Prongs are. 
The Marauders use their nicknames freely, Sirius calls James "Prongs" 
in SWM. Snape knew who Harry meant in OotP when he says "they've got 
Padfoot". Hell, even Voldemort knew who "Wormtail" was. Their 
nicknames are not a secret. 

Snape also thinks that Harry could have gotten the Map "directly from 
the manufacturers". I don't think there is any doubt that Snape who 
made the Map, even though he didn't know it was a map, at that time.

wynnleaf:
Sirius made it clear that he was talking about 7th year, when he
said that James made sure their attacks on Snape were done away from
Lily's eyes. By the way, James could not keep those attacks secret
from her if a large portion were initiated by Snape - since
presumably Snape had no reason to keep the attacks secret from
Lily. Therefore the fact that Lily didn't ever hear about the
attacks is some evidence that Snape was not initiating them in 7th
year, only James.


Mike:
If Sirius is telling the truth about James hexing Snape on into their 
7th year, then he is also telling the truth when he says, "Snape was 
a special case. I mean, he never lost an opportunity to curse James".

Also, Sirius said that Lily "didn't know too much about it,..." Not 
that Lily knew *nothing* about it, just that "James didn't take Snape 
on dates with her and jinx him in front of her, did he?" (OotP, p.671)

***************************************************
Other than waving back at him from pictures and the Mirror of Erised, 
the only time Harry sees his parents in close to real life is in 
Snape's Worst Memory. And that scene was not particularly flattering 
for either of them. <BTW, neither Harry nor Snape named that memory, 
JKR did. So is it really SWM, or does JKR want to put us off the 
trail?> This is why I have hope that JKR will redeem James and to a 
lesser degree Lily for Harry. 

Having said that, everyone in the scene were still teenagers, full of 
piss and vinegar. And it was one scene, and not suppose to reflect 
James nor Sirius in a very good light. It was also suppose to make 
us, like Harry, feel a twinge of sympathy for Snivellus, imo. Yeah, 
James was probably arrogant and to some degree a "bullying toerag" 
(quoting young Lily). And Sirius admits it. 

But, a short time after SWM, James pulls Severus away from the Shack 
and a transformed Lupin. Can such a nasty person that we see in the 
SWM be reformed so quickly to risk his life for the same boy that he 
hates just for existing? This is why I think it is unfair to 
completely paint young James  with this dark brush, based on this one 
scene that JKR gave us with the intention of eliciting sympathy for 
Snivelly.

A quick aside here. We don't know who openned the hostilities between 
Sevie and James. But my money is on the first year that knew more 
curses than half the seventh years and was part of a gang of much 
older Slytherins. I know that comes from Sirius, but he doesn't sound 
like he is fondly reminiscing about his early days at Hogwarts. No, 
he sounds like he's remembering him and James coming out on the short 
end of the stick in some early encounters. My confirmation comes in 
the form of Ron. He had five older brothers, a couple of them not shy 
about using unkind magic. Yet Ron still doesn't know diddly and can't 
do squat in his first year. I think James, with no older brothers, 
would not be in much better shape than Ron was in his early years.

As Neri said, we were being set up with regards to Snape, especially 
in Ootp. Only to be slapped down in HBP. Were we also being set up, 
to a lesser degree, with regards to the young MWPP?

Mike