Maraurders/he exists

[wynnleaf]

No: HPFGUIDX 168269


> Mike:
> I thought I had given my answer. I'll try again.
> 
> I picture the Sevie v James dynamic quite parallel to Draco v Harry. 
><snip>
> 
> Harry and Draco have a few dust-ups in the hallways, don't they? 
> Probably not unlike James and Sevie. 

wynnleaf
The problem here is that you have absolutely not a scrap of evidence
that there were dust-ups in the hallways anything akin to Harry and
Draco.  With Harry and Draco, we always have either Harry and Draco
one on one (HBP on train), or the Trio against Draco with Crabbe and
Goyle.  We have not only no examples, but not a bit of evidence that
James and Snape ever had a "dust-up" one on one, nor do we have any
evidence that Snape battled the Marauders with any help.  Sirius and
Lupin never mention Snape having any help, nor do we see any evidence
of friends to help in the pensieve scene, and Snape specifically says
he was always alone.  Nor do we have any evidence of James hexing
anyone else by himself.  Even in the detention files with "dust-ups"
(useful expression) with other students, James always seemed to have
at least Sirius with him.  

Mike
> But neither Harry nor James would be wise to turn his back on Draco 
> or Severus, imo. 

wynnleaf
The *only* evidence that we have that James might have been wise not
to turn his back on Snape is Sirius and Lupin's comments about Snape
giving "as good as he got."  Since that remark was in the context of
their attacks on Snape, we have in 6 books no evidence that Snape was
sneaking around hexing them.  In fact, all the Marauders ever mention
is Snape sneaking around trying to get them expelled.  Why don't they
mention his sneaking around looking for a chance for their backs to be
turned to attack them?

Mike
> Even Dumbledore draws a parallel between Harry-Draco and James-
> Severus. The **possible** difference *might* be that Draco has 
> CrabbenGoyle for allies and Snape *may* have had more powerful allies 
> in upper class Slytherins. <that enough opinion language? ;)>


wynnleaf
I would not be so quick to lay out the comparison as James to Snape =
Harry to Draco.   It's interesting that whenever in the past few posts
anyone has used this comparison, they've had Harry to Draco equating
with James to Snape.  Why that particular order?  Why not Harry to
Draco equating with  Snape to James?  Well, obviously I think because
posters assume that the correlation is that Harry responds to Draco
the way James responded to Snape, and Draco responds to Harry the way
Snape did to James.  

But guess what?  That's not the way Dumbledore arranged the order of
the comparison.  Harry said, "he [Snape] hated my father." and
Dumbledore said, "not unlike yourself and Mr. Malfoy."  If you were
simply going by the order of the comparison, it would be Snape-James
compared to Harry-Draco, or more specifically, Snape hating James is
like Harry hating Draco.  So if anyone wants to use Dumbledore's words
to prove a point, you should not *assume* that Dumbledore means that
James was to Snape as Harry is to Draco.  He could easily have meant
that Snape responded to James much like Harry did to Draco.  Indeed,
that is the order that is set up in the comments.

What I think many readers want is to come up with something that gives
a better reason for the Marauders to hex Snape rather than just "he
exists."  So readers imagine -- and even hope -- that JKR will in Book
7 show us something Snape was doing in school that would show he was
just as guilty as the Marauders in perpetuating the feud, and that he
somehow brought on their hexing by some nastiness on his part.

But as yet JKR has had numerous avenues to show us Snapes supposed
guilt and hasn't done it.

She never had Sirius or Lupin tell about Snape bullying other kids. 
She never had Sirius or Lupin mention Snape's supposed bias against
non-purebloods.  She doesn't have Sirius or Lupin give examples of
unprovoked attacks by Snape.  She did not allow James to give Lily any
excuse in the Worst Memory scene other than "he exists."  She did not
have James or Sirius in the Worst Memory scene accuse Snape of
anything.  She has Sirius tell Harry that Snape was never suspected of
being a Death Eater -- showing us quite clearly that the Marauders
never suspected it either, for all Sirius' comments that Snape was
into the Dark Arts.  

When JKR wrote the scene of Filch's detention files, she had the
perfect opportunity to reveal a few of Snape's detentions, where she
could show us some of *his* misdeeds.  But she didn't show us any.

Face it.  JKR has had lots of opportunities to have the Marauder's
directly accuse Snape in both memory and in Harry's present.  She's
had ample opportunity to show us records of Snape's youthful hexing. 
But she hasn't done it.  

She had the opportunity in writing about the werewolf prank to have
Sirius voice accusations about Snape's culpability in getting himself
into trouble.  She didn't do it.  We only hear that Snape was trying
to get them expelled -- when in fact, the Marauder's were committing
an offense that could merit expulsion.

The only real wrongdoings she has shown us about young Snape is 1.
sneaking out to the whomping willow following Lupin, who was also
engaged in serious wrongdoing on most full moon nights (and Snape's
rulebreaking here pales in comparison to the Marauders or even the
Trio's rulebreaking) and 2. creating Sectumsempra for enemies, which
could have been created as a purely defensive spell after Snape became
convinced (and he *was* convinced) that students tried to kill him.  

We know that Snape created numerous minor hexes, but have no record of
any offensive or unprovoked fighting on Snape's part and therefore
have no evidence that he used those hexes for anything other than
defense.  Sure, he may have used them offensively, but we have no
evidence of it.  And JKR has had plenty of scenes where she could
easily have given that evidence.

I think there's a tendency to want Snape to be like Draco so that
James could then be compared in a favorable light with Harry.  But the
evidence of canon doesn't support that.  

In POA, Sirius said in the Shrieking Shack that Peter was drawn to the
"biggest bully in the playground."  Sirius meant Voldemort, but who
was Peter following before Voldemort?  James and Sirius.  Maybe when
James quit being a bully is when Peter went looking for another bully
to follow.

wynnleaf