Harry's detention in HBP

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 168310

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > I actually do think Snape is a pretty noble man.  He's never 
> > struck me as the type to torment innocents just to get his       
> > jollies.
> > <snip>
 
> >>Alla:
> I am **honestly** trying to understand the view that Snape would 
> never torment an innocent just to get his jollies, I really am, but 
> when from so many pages I see Snape doing just that and in         
> something which I just don't see how it can be interpreted         
> differently, it is really hard to understand where you are coming   
> from.

Betsy Hp:
Well, I'm pretty sure I won't change your mind <g> but let me go 
through the various examples you've raised and try and see if I can't 
explain how I look at Snape in those scenes.  As I say, I doubt 
you'll *agree* with me, but it might help clarify my thinking?  Maybe?

> >>Alla:
> <snip>
> I mean, would he attack a boy who just came to the whole new world 
> on his lesson, even when the boy is quite likely to be nervous?

Betsy Hp:
This is the first potions lesson in PS/SS.  And I think everything 
that occurred there was Snape's normal teaching method.  I'd bet 
every first year got to hear that speech and I'll bet every first 
year class had near impossible questions thrown at them.  It's 
Snape's "pay attention, this will not be an easy course and I will be 
*extremely* demanding" moment.

That he singled out Harry (because I'm fairly sure he spread his 
questions around normally) has nothing to do with Snape enjoying 
watching Harry suffer, IMO.  Snape is going on the offensive trying 
to head Harry's ego (and the class's hero-worship) off at the pass.  
Does Snape misread Harry?  Yes.  Harry wasn't buying all the sighing 
and giggling and fainting his classmates (and teachers) were doing 
around him; it made him uncomfortable if anything.  But Snape did not 
know that.

But I don't see this as Snape enjoying watching Harry squirm for the 
sake of making a small child squirm.  Especially since Harry 
*doesn't* squirm.  (Actually, I thought he was very Snape-like in his 
refusal to fold when faced with overwhelming odds. Oh, those two. <g>)

> >>Alla:
> <snip> ...I mean, would he take away the book from that boy who was 
> reading outside?

Betsy Hp:
This is in PS/SS when Snape confiscates Harry's library book.  I know 
we disagree on this, but I read this as library books not being 
allowed outside (believable knowing the librarian <g>).  Harry is 
annoyed, not tormented and Snape doesn't seem to be enjoying himself.

> >>Alla:
> <snip>
> Would he belittle boys' father to his face, whose death he took    
> part in? 

Betsy Hp:
The first time Snape mentions James is in PoA. And if he was worried 
that an adult was using his own knowledge of James to put that boy in 
danger (Lupin enticing Harry to leave Hogwarts and fall into Sirius's 
clutches) then I'd expect nothing less.  (I did a long post on this, 
I'll have to dig it up; it's full of juicy canon.)

> >>Alla:
> <snip>
> And Snape would never make fun of that boy, who wants Dumbledore 
> help to help the dying man, no, that would be so not Snape. :)

Betsy Hp:
This is in GoF when Harry is trying to fetch Dumbledore to assist Mr. 
Crouch. 

Eh, he mocks Harry a bit.  Didn't strike me as all that bad behavior, 
and it doesn't keep Harry from reaching Dumbledore. 

> >>Alla:
> And Snape would never break the potion that the boy made, no, he 
> would never do it.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
This was in OotP after the Pensieve incident.

Hee! Yeah that was fairly bad, I suppose.  Snape was pretty pissed at 
Harry at the time.  For reasons I did understand.  It was petty (even 
if it was just a case of not stopping the potion from rolling off the 
desk) but I wouldn't call this the case of an evil man tormenting a 
poor innocent.  It was just an adult sticking it to a snotty pain in 
the ass kid.  Not admirable (but, um, kind of funny). <g>

> >>Alla:
> <snip> 
> Oh, and of course Snape would never threaten to poison another      
> boy's toad and would never assign him a detention to cut those     
> other lizards/toads.

Betsy Hp:
See, this takes place in PoA when Neville goes through what I think 
is his biggest school crises.  Snape had a choice of either trying to 
reach a failing student, or letting that student fail.  (And I'm not 
sure that a student failing 3rd year potions wouldn't get kicked out 
of Hogwarts.)

Snape, as a good teacher, took on the challenge and did his damnedest 
to reach Neville.  His methodology was grabbing Neville by the scruff 
of his neck and dragging him through potions.  And I'm betting 
neither Snape nor Neville enjoyed themselves very much.  But Neville 
does better in Potions after this year.  So I actually award Snape 
points for this bit.

> >>Alla:
> <snip>
> And I see Snape actually enjoying not just the fact that Harry 
> reading James and Sirius' detentions - NO, I see him enjoying 
> reminding Harry that they are both dead (the record of their great 
> achievements remains)
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Harry doesn't read it this way.  So if that was Snape's goal he 
failed.  Which actually says to me that this wasn't Snape's goal, 
because Snape wouldn't give up.  He'd come up with other ways to 
twist the knife (like Harry, Snape's not big on quitting <g>).  
Instead, he turns his attention to reminding Harry that he's missing 
lovely days out on the grounds.

Also, Snape's far too noble than to torment Harry in that way. He'll 
stick to making digs about Harry's intelligence and/or potions 
skills. <rbeg>

Betsy Hp