NOT the Real Spy (Was Re: The REAL Spy)

[julie]

No: HPFGUIDX 168365


> 
> Goddlefrood, mounting his charger to defend Prof. McG.:
> 
> Minerva is certainly arguably the most straightforward 
> character in terms of her loyalties, this appears to have 
> made many suspicious of her for no better reason than to say
> "well she MUST be a traitor because she so obviously isn't
> one", or words to that effect.

Julie:
That's never been my argument. *If* (BIG IF) Minerva were to
be revealed the spy in the Order, the possible clues I see 
have mostly to do with Dumbledore. E.g., Minerva is a perfect
candidate to be Dumbledore's closest confidante, but we see
no evidence of such a relationship (Severus seems to fit the
closest confidante role better than Minerva). She's also never
been privy to very little concerning Harry's safety outside of 
Hogwarts. 

For instance, we know Hagrid was entrusted with the care of
Harry after the murder of his parents at GH, yet Minerva's
"role" is to stand in front of the Dursley household all day
in her cat form waiting for Dumbledore to eventually appear
and tell her what's going on (and he leaves of good many of
the particulars out).

Obviously this doesn't prove anything, but *if* Minerva 
is revealed to be a spy it would be the sort of thing we 
could point back to as clues to her true nature. 

Goddlefrood:
> There are one or two quibbles I have with this and let me say 
> I do not believe Minerva is a traitor.
> 
> Firstly Voldemort, despite being arguably mad, is not so 
> deranged as to mix up the gender of his Death Eaters. He 
> clearly states "he" when talking about his faithful servant 
> at Hogwarts and indeed for all the missing DEs in the 
> graveyard scene in GoF. Minerva is clearly a woman ;) and 
> also at Hogwarts during that excursion of Harry's, unless 
> she pulled a Snape of course and went to explain her absence 
> later. 

Julie:
I don't think Minerva has to be a marked DE to be spying 
for Voldemort in some capacity. 

Goodlefrood:
> This would exclude the possibility that he was referring to 
> Minerva, and also, therefore the possibility that she is a
> Death Eater. Could she be another type of spy? Not as far as
> I'm concerned and I see no value in it :)
 
Julie:
I think it's possible she *could* be another type of spy.
Anything is possible after all ;-) As far as there being 
any value in it, I suppose it would have the same value as
her being any type of spy for Voldemort, including a DE.
Which would be shock value. 

Goodlefrood:
> Should we choose to trust JKR's interviews, and I for one 
> generally do on points of information at least, then Minerva 
> was 70 years old from the stand point of 1995. This would 
> translate to the very real probability that, while she was 
> indeed at Hogwarts with a certain Tom Riddle, she had actually 
> concluded her Newts and left the school prior to the original 
> opening of the Chamber of Secrets, albeit only the year before.

Julie:
I don't think Minerva spying for Voldemort in some 
capacity requires that they were friends, lovers or 
anything but perhaps casual acquaintances. Voldemort
could have "recruited" her at a later date, once she 
was a Hogwarts professor. At that point she would be 
much more useful to him. 

Goodlefrood:

<snipping argument against Minerva deliberately attempting
to harm or allow harm to come to Harry, as I don't believe
that either>

> I certainly believe it will not be correct that Minerva is a 
> traitor or spy of any kind. Harry has enough known and unknown 
> enemies or possible friends to deal with without any more being 
> sprung on him, as I've said before in respect of certain others,
> who will not be mentioned ;).
> 
> That she was not in the original Order of the Phoenix picture is
> no indication that she was working for someone else at the time,
> she was a teacher (39 years this December) and has been stated 
> by JKR to be a worthy second to Dumbledore.
> 
> Sorry, I just don't see it, could a little further argument be
> advanced?

Julie:
My argument is this. *IF* (that big IF again) Minerva is
a spy, then I believe she is an UNWILLING spy. I.e., she
is under a spell that coerces her to unknowingly pass on
information to Voldemort. It could be Imperius, though I 
suspect Voldemort could come up with something a bit more
original (as can JKR!). I don't really have a clue *how*
Voldemort is doing it, but if it is happening I predict
that Minerva has never had any idea she is compromising
the Order or Harry, but Dumbledore has long suspected it
(which explains why he's given her so little information
and why she doesn't seem to play a critical role in the
Order). 

Certainly one could argue that Minerva is too busy being 
Dumbledore's second in command at Hogwarts to take much
active role in the Order, and I'm sure this has been 
Dumbledore's explanation to her. And it's a reasonable
one, as it would have to be for Minerva not to wonder 
why Dumbledore doesn't completely trust her! 

Oh, and I also predict that *IF* Minerva is spying against
her will, Harry will not blame her, nor will anyone else
in the Order. Nor is it a betrayal, because it's not 
something she can consciously control. I think Harry can 
and will understand that.

Again, this is just a possible theory, certainly not the
most probable one, but I suspect whatever happens in DH,
there will be few probable outcomes--other than Harry
ultimately defeating Voldemort--or we would have figured 
everything out already! So just add one more unlikely but
not impossible theory to the pile!

Julie