Maraurders/he exists

[Neri]

No: HPFGUIDX 168382

>
> Alla:
> > It can be said that no matter how important backstory is, it is 
> > still Harry's story and JKR indeed going to give us bits and pieces 
> > of Marauders and Snape, not go into every detail, etc.
> > 
> > Don't you think that for the purpose of judicial erm... literary 
> > economy those bits and pieces that JKR **is** going to give us are 
> > going to be reliable, since she is not going to give us very many?
> 
> Ceridwen:
> I know you're only playing Devil's Advocate here, but this is how I 
> view the Pensieve scene, and even Snape's memories that we're shown 
> during the Occlumency lessons.  This isn't Snape's story, so JKR has 
> to show us the real deal one time only.
> 
> This isn't the Marauder's story, either.  All of them, MWPP and SS 
> play roles in the backstory which shores up the story we're reading 
> about Harry, but Harry's story is the most important.  In my opinion, 
> we're shown what we need to be shown for the Marauders and Snape.
> 

Neri:
I'd go even further here: I think the Marauders backstory is
completely unimportant, except for the way it affects Harry (and the
reader). You expect that every glimpse JKR gives us of Marauders
backstory must be objective and representing, as if they "deserve"
being presented the way they truly were, the same way that Harry
deserves it. If I understand your position correctly, you'd resent JKR
manipulating this backstory in order to use it as a mere plot device,
to trick Harry and us in wrong directions. But I think JKR would have
no qualms doing this. Well, she might actually feel a few pangs of
regret, maybe even shed a tear or two about Harry wrongly accusing his
own father, and then she'll do it anyway, same as she killed Sirius
because it was needed for the effect on Harry and the plot.

I expect JKR will correct this in DH by giving us the true story of
the Marauders' (and Snape's) school years, or at least the part of it
we'll need for Harry's story (this is how I interpret "you'll know
everything you *need* to know") but I don't necessarily expect a
series of long Pensieve experiences throughout those seven years just
to set right the wrong impression from the SWM scene. Consider that it
took Lupin only a few lines in HBP to set us right regarding the use
of Levicorpus. Consider that everything we currently know about the
Prank (not much, but significantly more than nothing) comes from a
single Lupin paragraph in PoA. Based on this I'd estimate that five to
ten pages of Lupin's testimony about the Marauders school years would
be all we "need to know", including the Marauders' definitive history
with Snape. I'd be thankful if we get a whole chapter. Anyone wishing
for more than that will probably have to settle for fanfiction.


> Ceridwen:
> JKR said that Pensieve memories are objective records of what 
> happened.  That turns out to be important in the Young Tom Riddle 
> portion of HBP.  Since the Pensieve memories are supposed to give 
> Harry clues about how to effectively counter LV and find the identity 
> and location of the Horcruxes, then I think Pensieve memories being 
> objective will need to stand.
> 

Neri:
Pensieve memories being objective is irrelevant for this discussion. I
never claimed they weren't. They are as objective (but not *more*
objective) as any usual, non-Pensieve experience Harry has. Both kinds
of experiences equally depend on the inherent subjectivity of the
unreliable narrator, subjectivity that is potentially sneaky by
pretending to be objective.

For example, lets take the description we discussed upthread of Sirius
becoming very still "like a dog that has scented a rabbit". Sirius
becoming still is an objective fact, irregardless of Harry seeing this
in a Pensieve experience or not. The comparison of Sirius to a dog is
a borderline case since Sirius *is* a dog animagus and has some dog
characteristics. But the picture of Snape as the rabbit is completely
subjective. It is only Harry's impression, but it is used by the
narrator to affect the reader's opinion. The narrator could have used
here "like a dog that has scented a boar" and this would have given us
a totally different (and equally subjective) picture of Snape. Again,
this subjectivity is there regardless of whether Harry sees Sirius and
Snape in a Pensieve memory or in any usual non-Pensieve experience.
The narrator using many similar tricks throughout the scene can leave
us with an impression that is deliberately different from the truth.
Objective facts (like James dangling Snape by his ankle) are not going
to change, but their interpretation can change a lot if the context is
reversed. When we find that Levicorpus was used by everyone on
everyone and was actually started by Snape himself, the interpretation
of James using it changes a great deal.    


> Ceridwen:
><snip>
> Next, I naturally noticed the differences between Snape's controlled 
> motion and Harry's wild slashing, and the expected difference in 
> their respective results.  Snape gives a little nick, Harry slashes 
> like a Mideival knight in an epic battle.  James gets a little cut, 
> Draco nearly bleeds to death.  Rather than Snape doing the spell 
> wrong, or too fast, or missing and merely grazing James, I think he 
> did it right.  He was in control of the spell.  He knew it, he knew 
> what it did, he was able to wield it successfully.
> 
> Harry wasn't.  He didn't know what it did, he didn't use brief, tight 
> movements, he slashed.  If we exchanged the wands for swords, James's 
> cut would be the nick Errol Flynn gets from Basil Rathbone during a 
> fencing duel, while Draco's massive damage would be the black knight 
> who won't let Arthur's men pass in Monty Python and the Holy Grail 
> (though Draco wasn't swearing it was only a flesh wound).
> 
> I don't think the nick on James's face was made by anything but 
> Sectum Sempra.
>

Neri:
The thing is, if Snape was using Sectumsempra under full control here
only for the purpose of nicking James, then he was doing a very stupid
thing. He got absolutely no advantage out of it. It would be like
fighting someone with a needle: you're almost sure to draw some blood,
but at maximum you'd manage to anger your opponent even more, and
hardly stop him. Any common hex (or indeed Levicorpus) would have done
Snape more good at that point. Snape wasted his one shot at James
*and* risked exposing his secret Dark invention for no gain at all.

Now, it isn't that I give Snape a lot of credit for being wise in this
scene. Allowing himself to be taken by surprise, neglecting to wear
trousers at a time when "you couldn't move for being hoisted into the
air by your ankle", calling a mudblood to someone offering help
 not
overall one of Severus's brighter days, is it? But the cool head and
full tactical control required for using "a medieval sword" to merely
nick an opponent's face, contrasted with the sheer strategic stupidity
of using that sword at that moment for no possible gain, this
combination just strikes me as unrealistic. I find it more likely that
under the situation Snape lost his head all the way, and was saved
from cutting James open by his luck (and JKR's plot considerations)
rather than by cool thinking. It rather fits with Snape's tendency
throughout the series to lose his head and be saved by his luck when
James and his friends are involved. 


Neri