Snape as Neville's teacher / JKR's sexy men roll call

[montavilla47]

No: HPFGUIDX 168528

Shaun:
No, probably not - but we cannot equate enjoying a class with
learning successfully in it. 
True, many people do enjoy the classes they do well in, but it's not
requirement. It's just a  nice bonus.

Phoenixgod2000:
True, but we were specifically talking and Hermione and Harry
responding to Snape's teaching methods. You said you thought Harry
responded to Snape's class. I disagree. If Harry had responded, he
would have had a fire lit under him. A fire to learn everything he
could about potions.  And he doesn't get that fire.  Instead, Potions
becomes a class to be endured and to do what he can to pass. He has no
love, no desire for the subject--which if Snape were a great teacher
he would have.  If Harry didn't absolutely have to take the class he
would drop in a minute.  Not what I would call overwhelmingly successful.

Montavilla47:
I agree with you, Phoenixgod, about what constitutes "success."  Ideally, 
each student should have a fire lit under them and a passion to learn.

But I'm not sure that was ever going be Harry's experience with Potions.  
What seems to light a fire under Harry is--well, what?  The class he's best
at is D.A.D.A. (by objective standards, it's his one "O").  What inspired 
Harry to get that good?  Facing Voldemort.

What inspired Harry to put the extra work into learning the Patronus?  
Fear of the Dementors.

What inspired Harry to learn the extra hexes and spells for the TWT?  Fear
of looking stupid in front of the whole school.

Harry does well in his classes, but he doesn't have a "fire" for anything 
but D.A.D.A.  He seems to do so well because he has Hermione setting
up his study schedule and nagging him through his homework.  

And maybe--maybe he puts in a bit more effort because he wants to be 
an auror.

Under Slughorn, Harry wouldn't be doing any better, except that he has a
book with all the answers written in.  It's hard to judge whether Slughorn's
style has to do with the class being N.E.W.T. level or not, but if he took
the same attitude in a first year class, I could see Harry getting quickly
discouraged because he'd be messing up potions right with no idea how to 
fix them.  (Neville would be even worse off.)

I'm basing this on the way that Slughorn doesn't seem to mind if the 
students do 80% of the potion right--although he's delighted if you
get it right.  Snape would have been telling Hermione exactly why her
potion was the wrong color.

Phoenixgod2000
We are having an argument about whether or not Snape is a good teacher
and I have to wonder if it matters to him in the slightest. Is he
using his methods because he believes that they work or because they
fit his general disposition as an evil sourpuss and thus the path of
least resistance?

Seems to me like he only has that job because Dumbledore needed him
close by.  If he were a truly free man would he be a teacher?  Does he
have the calling?  I don't think he does and ultimately that's what
bothers me about him. I don't think he cares about the students and I
don't think he cares if they learn anything or not.  He's just marking
time and I think he's doing it at the expense of the students of
Hogwarts.  As someone who thinks of teaching as his calling that
offends me.

Montavilla47:
Actually, that bothers me a lot more about Dumbledore than it does about
Snape.  Snape isn't the only teacher at Hogwarts with a... questionable
style.  Hagrid isn't even qualified to Apparate, let alone teach.  A student is
seriously injured in his very first class.

Dumbledore questions whether  Divination is worth teaching, but he first
hires a fraud and then a teacher who shares his opinion to the extent that 
he tells the students it's not worth even trying to divine.  (Okay, I'm 
exaggerating, but I'm suddenly wondering if Parvati's experience in Firenze's 
class that first day were that different from Harry's in D.A.D.A. with Umbridge?  
Minus the physical torture, of course.)

The history teacher is so boring that students routinely fall asleep in his 
class.

I realize this is IMO and your mileage may vary, but I think Snape cares
too much, if anything.  Not about his student's egos, but about whether
they learn potions--or learn enough to stay away from them if they don't
have the patience, aptitude, and precision to do them right.

You're right that some students are going to be completely turned off
the subject by Snape's teaching style.  I'm sure he's happy about that, telling
himself that the world is better off without second-rate apothecaries.

Montavilla47