Slughorn favoritism/ Snape as Neville's teacher LONG

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 168606

> Alla:
> 
> In the part you snipped I asked whether the interpretation is that 
> Slugghorn's collection is **only** about the right people in power.
> 
> There is that part, no question about that. I am just yet to see that 
> he wants not skilled people in power - not that he not overlooks 
> people who deserve it as well, if that makes sense.
> 

Pippin:
But he overlooks people who deserve it *more* -- people with
skill and moral courage, like Neville and Luna and most of all,
Ron. Ron turns out to be a capable leader, but under Slughorn's 
system he  wouldn't even make the team. Somebody like McClaggan
would.

> > Pippin:
 By the way, what we don't know is what Slughorn would have done 
if Voldemort's servants had found him. 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Okay. We don't know that, I agree. How is this relevant?

Pippin:
It goes to the question of whether Slughorn showed more virtue
by hiding from Voldemort than Snape ever did. We don't know
whether Snape ever had any warning that Voldemort would try
to recruit him and we don't know what Slughorn would have
done if he hadn't had a warning. In both cases we are comparing
a known to an unknown --apples and oranges.

We *can*  compare what Slughorn and Snape each did when they
passed on information and concluded that it was being put to evil use. 
Snape  disclosed what he had done to Dumbledore, Slughorn 
attempted to conceal it. When the concealment was discovered,
Sluggy still didn't want to tell Dumbledore what he'd done. Snape 
didn't need Harry to tell him he ought to make amends. 
Slughorn did.

> Pippin:
> And we know that people who secretly served Voldemort in VW I,
such as Malfoy and Nott,  were part of the Slug Club and must 
have found it very useful.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Eh, sure, okay. They may have or people whom they met there may have 
> been disgusted by them and their values eventually.

Pippin:
Right, they were so disgusted by Lucius Malfoy's values that they refused
to let him serve as a governor of Hogwarts. Not. :)

> Pippin: 
> > For each of Snape's faults as a teacher, which I admit he had, we 
> have been shown a respected teacher at Hogwarts who had the same
> > faults, only more so. There are teachers who were scarier, crueller
> > and more unfair than Snape was, only not to Harry.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> No, that is your interpretation, **not** a fact. I am **yet** to see 
> a Hogwarts teacher who did the same things to **any** student as 
> Snape did to Harry starting with the first lesson. So, I am sorry but 
> I disagree.

Pippin:
Let's look at Mad-eye's first lesson, bearing in mind that JKR said
that Fake!Moody acted just like the real Moody.

Neville was forced to witness a living creature being tortured in
the same manner which drove his parents insane. His reaction
was so violent that Hermione called aloud for Moody to stop it,
a reaction she has never had in Snape's class. After class ended,
Neville was traumatized to the point of incoherence, and 
though the gift book calmed him, it  didn't stop him from being 
red-eyed and sleepless that night. 

Whereas after the first Potions lesson, Harry is not found standing
hollow-eyed and blankly staring in the corridor. His mind is racing
and his spirits are low, but he is soon delightedly hearing Hagrid
call Filch "that old git." And afterwards Harry  "thought that none
of the lessons he'd had so far had given him as much to think
about as tea with Hagrid. Had Hagrid collected that package
just in time? Where was it now? And did Hagrid know something
about Snape that he didn't want to tell Harry?" 

Those are the canon facts. That is the extent of Harry's "low
spirits." I do not see how that can be in any way called worse
than what Neville went through or even comparable. But
none of that caused Fake!Moody to lose any respect as a
teacher. Harry even thinks that he did what Lupin might
have done.

> Pippin: 
> > I  think Snape has a moral vision that could be summed up in the
> > royal Scots motto "Nemo me impune lacessit," roughly "No one 
> provokes me without harm."  He seems to make no allowances for 
> > provocations that are unintentional or may not exist anywhere 
> > except in his own mind,  and that, I am sure, is deficient in 
> Rowling's  world view. But what amuses me is that those who want 
to see Snape suffer for his treatment of Harry and the murder of 
Albus Dumbledore seem to be adopting the same standard.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Since I wholeheartedly wish Snape to suffer for his treatment of 
> Harry and murder of Albus Dumbledore, I think this question is 
> applicable to me. So, I am asking what standard do you think I am adopting, 
> standard of what I am adopting and  how is this relevant to this 
> discussion?
>

Pippin:
I display a garment, only the reader can decide whether it fits :) But 
the standard I am referring to would be  "Nemo Harrium impune
lacessit" if I am not mangling the grammar. No one provokes
Harry without harm, IOW. 

I am sorry  to think that the anticipated satisfaction of seeing 
this motto validated would cause anyone to give less than due 
weight to the possibility that provocation may have been
unintentional or blamed on the wrong person, but I 
certainly see that happening with Harry. He is ignoring facts
already in evidence in order to invent a motive for Snape to
have murdered Dumbledore. 

Of course *we* have been given an alternative motive: the
UV. But that is something we actually know very little about.
And we too have to invent facts in order to make it prove
anything conclusively.That is, we can't prove that 
the vow as stated would have forced Snape to drop dead if
he didn't murder Dumbledore, so we can't take Snape's
continued existence as proof that he did. 

IMO, it is inevitable that provocation will be blamed on the wrong 
person at least some of the time. I hope it would not be too 
presumptuous of me to think that Rowling and I might share a belief 
that in these "not secular books" there could be only one whose 
judgements are supposed to be true, just and righteous altogether, 
and his name is not Harry Potter. IMO, no one can be presumed to be 
right just because ignorant people call him the Chosen One. And
I will be very surprised if the books do not bear that out.

Pippin