On Moral Compasses (was:Re: Snape as Neville's teacher...)

[wynnleaf]

No: HPFGUIDX 168654


> Betsy Hp:
  (3) I'm not all that 
> enamored of Hermione's moral compass.  In fact, I'm a bit worried 
> it's broken, or maybe just incorrectly (or not fully?) installed.
<snip>
> Now, obviously Young!Snape joining the Death Eaters (and I do believe 
> he joined them willingingly, not as Dumbledore's sleeper) shows a 
> moral bump in Snape's principles.  And obviously, Hermione hasn't 
> chosen anything so outwardly wrong.  But then again, she's not been 
> given a choice has she?
><snip>
> Hermione is *all over* the Slugclub.  Does it bother her that Ron 
> isn't included in this club?  Not that I've seen.  Hermione's a tad 
> bit uncomfortable discussing said club in front of Ron but not so 
> uncomfortable she doesn't *go*.  And Hermione actively supports 
> Slughorn's efforts to recruit Harry into the Slugclub, but doesn't 
> seem to try and get Ron included.  Which suggests to me that, when 
> she's in the in, Hermione is perfectly comfortable with exclusions.  
> Even if some pretty decent people (I'm assuming Hermione thinks Ron 
> is decent) are excluded. 
> 
> Hermione's reactions to house elves have been discussed a great deal 
> on this list.  And while I would give her a bit of credit for 
> correctly identifying something not quite right in the WW, Hermione's 
> weirdly stubborn refusal to *talk* with the House Elves and get their 
> take on things is bothersome, IMO.  Taken with her comfort in calling 
> Firenze a horse (a rather ugly slur as per Centaur's we have met) it 
> suggests a certain elitism on Hermione's part.
> 
> And then there is Marietta.  It really *really* bothers me that 
> Hermione is so *not* bothered by Marietta's continuing mark.  There's 
> a callous disregard of other people *as* people being expressed here, 
> IMO.  
> <snip>
> Of course, we don't get to see inside Hermione's head. <snip> But
based on 
> what we have seen, I would not credit Hermione with a strong sense of 
> morals.  I'd rather look to the current Professor Snape, who's faced 
> his demons (IMO) and come out the other side, than Hermione "sees 
> what she wants to see" Granger for answers to any sort of moral 
> dilemma.


wynnleaf
Another that seemed to me perfectly indicative of the kind of
characteristics Hermione displays in several books is her reaction to
cheating in Quidditch.  When it's *her* sabotaging the chances of
another student to get on the team in order for Ron's tryout to look
better in comparison, then it's okay.  Sure, she's maybe slightly
embarrassed that Harry noticed, but she had no real crisis of
conscience over it.  But later, when she thought Harry had given Ron
Felix Felicis in order to do well in a game, she got oh-so-indignant
over the supposed cheating.  She seemed to have absolutely no care for
how hypocritical and self-righteous she was being, particularly in the
face of her own earlier actions.

I see this in Hermione several times, such as in OOTP when she is
unconcerned about the effects of her own jinx on Marietta, yet wonders
aloud about whether they should tell anyone about how Montague came to
be injured.  Note that even though she wonders about telling someone
about the potentially important information about how Montague got
injured -- which could be important in helping him -- Hermione does
nothing.  

And her attitude toward the HBP potions book concerned me as well. 
Yes, she was right to be irritated at Harry for using it to gain a
reputation for potions that he didn't deserve.  But her complete
unwillingness to even consider any information that didn't come out of
a textbook was just amazing to me.  For a gifted person to have no
curiosity about those notes that were able to achieve such better
results really sort of appalled me.  It bordered on unrealistic to me,
except for one possible reason:  to me, what I felt I was seeing was a
girl so used to be the "brightest" that she couldn't accept the idea
that some other 6th year student -- albeit from years previously --
was far more gifted and creative than she.  I felt like, just as
Hermione couldn't stand the idea of Harry *appearing* to be better at
potions, she also didn't like the idea that some nameless student
really was far better and more creative a student than she was.  So
she clung tenaciously to the textbook, insisting that it was the only
thing that could be used, and wouldn't even allow herself to find out
those notes were achieving better results.  Hermione, as we can see
from her boggart as well as her constant hand-waving and need to be
recognized for her knowledge, can be very insecure about being so
smart.  I thought the HBP potions book really brought out just how
steadfastly she clings to position as "brightest" student in her year.

I really hope DH turns over some apple carts as regards changing the
viewpoints of many of the main characters, not just Hermione.  

Jadon
Hagrid is another example of an otherwise nice person who is
prejudiced about certain groups of people (straitlaced muggles, non-
Gryffindors). In PS he insults the Dursleys _before_ finding out that
they've been keeping information from Harry, and when Uncle Vernon
insults DD he leaves Dudley with a pig's tail, which is every bit as
bad as Marietta's pimples. In later books the Dursleys take abuse
from whatever aurors/other adults turn up to collect Harry (except, I
think, Arthur). Hagrid treats Draco badly just as Snape treats Harry/
Neville badly.

And from another post
Jadon
he shows a general lack of respect for
Draco. A pre-PoA example is the detention in the Forest in PS
("Harry, you go with Fang an' this idiot"). Draco provokes him by
whining - specifically the sort of thing likely to annoy Hagrid 

Wynnleaf
Thing is, in much of the HP series, Harry views any insulting or even
hurting of the unpleasant people as completely okay.  And through the
Harry-filter, the reader is encouraged to be accept anything that
happens to anyone Harry dislikes, but if something even extremely
similar happens to Harry or his friends, then Harry (and usually the
reader) sees it as terrible.  

When Hagrid gave Dudley the pig's tail, Harry (and the reader) knew
that Dudley was a bully.  But Hagrid really didn't know anything about
Dudley and had only been exposed to Vernon's rudeness.  Yet he hexed
Dudley and it's presented through Harry's point of view as great.

Similarly, when Hagrid calls Draco "this idiot," Harry has no problem
with it and through his filter, the reader is meant to think it's
perfectly okay for Hagrid to call a student an "idiot" because, after
all, it's perfectly acceptable for an adult to call an 11 year old
student who is terrified of the forest an "idiot" because the 11 year
old is unpleasant and unpleasant people deserve this sort of thing.  

Yet when Snape calls Neville an "idiot" when Neville's not following
instructions causes a cauldron to blow up, we see, through Harry's
eyes, that Snape is being cruel to poor Neville.

Neville was scared and inept.  Draco was scared and unpleasant. 
Neville is a Gryffindor and Draco is a Slytherin.  Hagrid is good and
likes Harry.  Snape is unpleasant and Harry thinks he hates him. 
Therefore, it's okay for Hagrid to call Draco an idiot, but wrong for
Snape to call Neville an idiot.  At least that's the way Harry reacts
to it, and that's the way the reader is encouraged to feel about the
two situations.

I really, really, really hope in DH that JKR has Harry see what's so
terribly wrong with this kind of thinking.

On another note --

Magpie
The type of Pureblood elitism Slughorn has fits with his hiding from the
DEs, I think. He's supporting their agenda, but doesn't want to face that,
so he just hides. 

wynnleaf
I had to comment on this.  Think of the US Civil War.  Plenty of
people were very, very much opposed to slavery, who were yet quite
racist in terms of their attitudes of superiority over other races. 
It's perfectly possible for Slughorn to have racist attitudes of the
superiority of pureblood wizards over muggleborns, and yet be
completely opposed to any agenda that would seek to harm muggleborns
or in any way limit their freedoms, or seek to keep the two groups
separate.  I don't think he supports the agenda of the DEs.  He just
has a degree of their same attitudes of superiority.  And he doesn't
even have it to the same degree as the DEs appear to have it.  

wynnleaf