Dumbledore's Past?

[cdayr]

No: HPFGUIDX 168731

Marigold wrote:
> When Dumbledore is being force-fed the potion in the black cave, he
> makes several statements that seem to indicate an event of some 
sort in
> the past---"please don't hurt them---hurt me instead," etc. 
(Sorry, I
> don't have access to my book at the moment.)
> 
> What I'm looking for is whether or not there has been any 
discussion
> about this and which postings I might look at to find it.
> 

> Jeremiah:
> 
> I don't know if this has been talked about but I'm just going to
> bull-headedly push on to the issue.
> 
> I love the question and I've tried to figure it out, too. What I 
think is
> this:
> -the postion make you relive/remember horrible things in your past.
> -the potion makes you see all your "failings" and mistakes from 
your past.
> -the potion makes you see the future and everyone who will die 
from your
> actions.
> 
> I think it makes you see everyone who has died that you love and 
care for.
> Because, let's face it, DD has had a lot of people die from 
fighing the
> "good" fight and they followed him.
> 
> Hope this thread flourishes with speculation. and I, too, hope 
this is not
> being repeated. (Sorry if it is).
> 

Celia now:
Well, I know that this has been discussed in the past, in a number 
of fascinating threads, but I'm up for more. <g> 

I am extremely curious about the nature of the potion in the cave, 
especially since I became an adherent to Pippin's theory that Snape 
was the person who made the potion originally, and all that might 
imply. See this post and the thread following it. 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/165765

I think all of Jeremiah's theories are viable options for how the 
potion might operate. I particularly am intrigued by the idea that 
you might see the future consequences of your actions played out. 
But I have another suggestion, based on the "Snape made the green 
goo back in his DE days" theory. 

What if the potion itself is imprinted with the memories or feelings 
of its creator? Therefore, the words spoken by Dumbledore might be 
memories, feelings, or experiences placed into it by Snape as he 
made the potion. These could be placed there either as intentional 
torture ("Hah! I'll leave them my worst painful thoughts and 
feelings!"), or because that is just how this potion works ("I'm 
making Kill Them Slowly With My Worst Memories Potion"). It appears  
from the text that Dumbledore is experiencing extreme regret at the 
realization that his actions are causing others to die (A 
selection: "It's all my fault...please make it stop, I know I did 
wrong...don't hurt them, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me 
instead...not that, not that, I'll do anything...I want to die! I 
want to die!" (Am.PB 572-573)). So if this is Snape's memory, what 
is it of?

Possibly the memory that DD is reliving is Snape's internal dialogue 
as he realizes he has condemned the Potters by revealing the 
prophesy to LV. (Notice I said internal, as I cannot imagine Snape 
ever pleading in this way out loud.) If you assume that Snape was 
truly regretful about causing the death of the Potters, this could 
fit for him. 

Another option is that this is some other horrid emotional memory of 
Snape's related to an incident we know nothing about yet, where his 
actions led to the death or pain of some other group of people. Any 
ideas?

I *will* say I'm not sure the textual evidence is strong enough for 
this theory to have much chance. The whole "I know I did wrong, it's 
my fault" theme seems quite unlike the Severus that we all know. 
BUT, if this is his bottled-up internal emotional landscape, 
concentrated in potion-form, perhaps this is evidence that he *is* 
racked with self-loathing and regret? 

Whatever is going on with the potion, I think the wording of DD's 
screams is so strangely and specifically about a particular incident 
that we will find out more about it in DH. 

-Celia, fully prepared to admit that I live under the delusion that 
the next book is called "Severus Snape and the Deathly Hallows", and 
therefore everything with me always comes back to Snape.