On the perfection of moral virtues.

[hickengruendler]

No: HPFGUIDX 168786

 
> wynnleaf
> Yes, personally I think JKR is going to have Harry learn a lot more 
> in DH (I have faith in her!).  But I don't really see that Harry 
has 
> grown much so far.  He has realized some things about himself that 
> were always there, but he has yet to go through an *internal* 
> struggle with any of his flaws or weaknesses in which he has truly 
> come out changed.
> 
 
Hickengruendler:

Do you think it is realistic for a 16 year old teenager to have these 
kind of internal struggle at least to this extrem degree? I know what 
the counterargument is, namely that this series (excluding maybe the 
epilogue) is likely over when Harry isn't even 18, and that since 
this his story, he needs to have it by his 18th birthday. But still, 
wouldn't it been equally satisfying to see a Harry who has changed 
and grown step by step over the course of years and is likely to 
continue these changes again?

And he did change and learn and gained a new perspective on the 
people surrounding him in every book. For example in PoA he went from 
wanting to kill Sirius personally to actually saving the life of the 
real betrayer. In OotP he used his leadership qualities really for 
the first time. And in all of the books, he gained a better 
understanding about people around him. You don't have to be a slimy, 
nasty and evil looking person to be a villain, normal looking persons 
like that harmless guy Quirrell can be just as dangerous. The 
demented looking escaped prisoner is actually demented looking not 
because he was born that way, but because of a really sad life story, 
and he is also innocent. Don't judge a book by it's cover. He also 
significantly changed his opinion about Neville and Luna. His 
behaviour in this reagrd did significantly change from OotP to HBP, 
and this is because of what happened at the end of OotP. Harry 
learned in this regard. He learned that his father did not have to be 
a perfect saint to be a heroe. He learned how to deal with his fame, 
and not to be simply uncritical of government. He saw his biggest 
school enemy crying and being terrified, and he saw a seeming fraud 
like Trelawney actually having some genuine power. His first opinion 
about Lupin (when Lupin was sleeping in the Hogwarts express), was 
actually a negative one, until he saw him in action. Harry's horizont 
broadened in every book, maybe not in the most obvious way, but it 
did. And I think the biggest shocker for him will come in HBP 
regarding Snape's innocence, but we'll have to wait and see, of 
course. (*Waves cheerfully to the Snape is evil camp*, you'll see how 
wrong you are soon enough ;-) ). And I think, despite of what flaws 
Dumbledore might have, this is also the true essence 
behind "Dumbledore's Man through and through". It is Dumbledore's 
forgiveness and tolerance, that is is important about this character, 
and while Harry is still far away from being anywhere close to 
Dumbledore, he also has around 135 years less life experience. I do 
see him on the right way generally, despite of some rash and unfair 
behaviour, which is only understandable given his age (and I don't 
mean regarding to Snape, in this case).

The same is basically true for Hermione as well. While I have seen 
readers (like Betsy here) actually critisizing her for example for 
her "horse" comment regarding Firenze, they actually in most cases 
seem to ignore, that Hermione does pay a prize for this at the end of 
the very book, when the centaurs are angry, that she probably thought 
them to be just a bunch of "pretty talking horses". I don't think at 
all that this was a coincidence by JKR. Also, her behaviour in the 
hospital scene towards to Luna, showed that she had learned some 
lesson in regards to Luna, at the very least regarding tact, but she 
also genuinely seems to start appreciating her. And while people may 
rightfully critisizing her behaviour towards Ron in HBP (though 
frankly, I don't think Ron treated her much better), she actually was 
much nicer and calmer to him after he got poisoned. Carol already 
wrote in an earlier post how un-Hermionelike she was, while waiting 
at Ron's beside. This scenes are IMO clearly some character 
development for Hermione. We don't have insight into her thoughts, 
therefore don't read about any inner turmoil, but I do see a change 
in her behaviour and I assume JKR did this on her purpose, 
particularly becaus eof how Hermione was written during these 
incidents and how shocked she sometimes is.

There still are some disappointing moments, like Ron basically going 
through the same storyline twice, or the IMO way too offhanded way, 
in which the Marietta incident is handled. I don't think all of them 
come back for the protagonists to deal with them, though some did, 
like the Montague prank, because JKR likes to mix genres, and she 
gives her comedic villain comic-like come-uppances like Dahl did. I 
do find this somewhat unlucky for her overall theme and those parts 
generally belong to my least favourite in the books (particularly, 
when a really harmless character like Zacharias Smith is getting it), 
but they don't IMO undermine the general broadening of the mind these 
kids went through from the very beginning.

Hickengruendler