Green Potion, Regulus, Snape, and DD (was: Dumbledore's Past?)

[cdayr]

No: HPFGUIDX 168788

> Celia before:
> > I am extremely curious about the nature of the potion in the 
cave, 
> > especially since I became an adherent to Pippin's theory that 
Snape
> > was the person who made the potion originally, and all that might
> > imply.
> <snip>
  
> Jen:  I didn't get a chance to read Pippin's theory the first time 
> around and it offers an explanation for several unanswered 
> questions.  That seems critical at this stage of the game!  I 
agree 
> DD's words will prove to fit a specific incident and had some 
> thoughts about other possibilites.   
<snip>
  After someone 
> proposed a theory that young Riddle was practicing a rudimentary 
form 
> of possession on the kids in the cave, I wondered if it might be 
their memories in the potion?  
<snip>
> The problem is, what answers would it provide for the story?  

Celia now:
I really like all of your theories on this Jen, and I agree that the 
voice DD uses sounds young and child-like. It's an intriguing 
proposition that maybe young Tom tortured the two kids in such a way 
that it imprinted on the cave itself, and those memories get 
activated with the potion. 
I have my own wacko idea for what happened with the green goo, which 
I will describe below, but I find I end up with the same issue you 
state above- how does this apply to the larger story enough that JKR 
would bother?? But then again, theorizing for the sake of theorizing 
is its own fun, right?

Jen:
Unless 
> R.A.B. happens to be one of those kids and is a familiar character 
> living under an alias in the current day (and also happens to be 
> magical <g>), that idea fits better in HBP than DH.  I used to 
really 
> like this idea until realizing Regulus is a better fit as R.A.B. 
when 
it comes to concluding the story.

Celia:
Like many of us, I am just sure that somehow the potion, the cave, 
the locket, and Regulus are all tied together somehow. I hadn't 
thought about Reggie being one of the kids, but it seems unlikely to 
me due to his having a family and probably not being a resident at 
Tom's orphanage for any amount of time. I've been pondering the 
Reggie/potion/death/Snape connection for some time, trying to sort 
out the cave, and here is my theory, with full acknowledgement that 
this is really a hodge-podge of many other people's theories. 
Forgive my blatent hypothesizing- not a ton of direct canon to site, 
just general theorizing. So, let's travel back in time...<swishy 
music and cross-fade)

We're at Hogwart's, and lonely student Severus Snape, left behind by 
his older "gang" who have all left school, befriends young Regulus 
Black. (there was lovely thread about this idea several months back. 
After school, perhaps DE Snape is even the person to recruit Reggie 
into the DEs. This enhances the animosity between Sirius and Severus 
nicely.) 
Time passes...Potions-expert Snape, as a DE, prepares the green 
potion 
for LV, not knowing what it will be used for. Meanwhile, DE Reggie 
is getting cold feet and learns about the locket horcrux (again, 
greater minds than mine have proposed wonderful scenarios for this 
to happen, most involving Bella). He wants to get out and eliminate 
LVs horcrux at the same time. Knowing he will likely die, Reggie 
goes to the cave, drinks the potion, steals the horcrux, and, 
feeling himself fading, writes the RAB note. BUT, as a last chance 
he dashes off to the one potions expert in his life- his pal 
Severus. Snape realizes what has poisoned him and knows he cannot 
save Reggie from his deadly potion. But, being savvy and self-
interested Snape, he realizes he can use Reggie's death to his own 
advantage. He AKs the dying "traitor" Regulus (we know he was killed 
by someone, but not LV), thus sealing his reputation as an extremely 
fanatical and loyal DE (sound familiar?) able to regain LVs trust 
even in unlikely circumstances. 

Internally shaken by what he has to do, the young Snape is now 
primed to turn spy for DD- he has murdered his friend, and the 
regret over that action may be a part of DD's trust in him.

Added cool aspects of this theory for the Cave and Tower scenes: DD 
would know from Snape about the green potion, (but not necessarily 
where the cave is, why Regulus drank the potion, or about the 
horcrux) so he knows what he is getting into when he drinks it. 
Also, Snape would be the only person he would want to see on the 
Tower as he is the only one who knows he is doomed OR could possibly 
save him from his own potion. And, as I said in a previous post, 
Snape's Unbreakable Vow might have helped lead DD to the potion- 
after all, in my opinion the UV is actively working to have Snape 
kill DD at that point, so it forces Snape's hand with the potion- he 
kills DD without even meaning to. Plus I like the parallel stories 
for Snape- first Reggie, then DD, same scenario, same result.

If this is all happening at roughly the same time
 Snape hears the 
prophesy, betrays the Potters, makes the potion, Reggie gets 
nervous, drinks it, etc
Then the idea that it is Snape's regretful 
memories in the potion could still be viable, although the timeline 
is tricky. Whoof, even I might have confused myself there.

As I said before, this concept owes a lot to other posters, 
particularly Pippin and Carol and many who I cannot name- bad me. 
And it makes me happy to think about. However, it has That Problem

does this move the main plot forward enough to be viable? Or, more 
likely, is this just part of my wish fulfillment for a 7,000 page 
novel entitled "The Marauder Years: All the Backstory You Ever 
Wanted."

> Jen:
> My second thought was whether the potion caused Dumbledore to 
relive 
> his worst memories and his worst happened during childhood.  We 
have 
> no explanation for what motivated his lifetime quest to end the 
> respective reigns of the two great Dark Wizards.  JKR's characters 
> tend to be motivated by very personal moments and while 
Dumbledore's 
> passion for making the WW a better place is great in theory, how 
did 
> he grow to undertake such a goal and more important, will the idea 
> serve the story?  I'm thinking about Grindelwald here and 
wondering 
> whether one or both of Dumbledore's parents were tortured and 
killed 
> by Grindelwald.
> 
> It would fill the bill for getting the Grindelwald story in there 
and 
> Dumbledore's family, both things JKR mentioned will be explored in 
> the last book (or in the case of Grindelwald it was more of a 'no 
> comment' situation).  Also, since GW seems the likely suspect for 
the 
> person Riddle knew who had one Horcrux, there could be a 
revelation 
> about how Dumbledore destroyed the Horcrux and/or defeated 
> Grindelwald without killing him *if* that was the case.  Such 
> information could help Harry in his own quest.  The latter could 
be 
> connected to the potion memory if there's some element of 
Dumbledore 
Ø	overcoming a need for revenge in order to defeat GW.

Celia:
Ooo, I like this idea, and I would be fascinated to learn more about 
DD's parents. I look forward to meeting Aberforth so much, perhaps 
he is the person with all of the information we need to prove that 
DD's screams in the cave are his memories of his parents' death at 
GWs hands.

Not to harp on my own obsessive idea, but the whole Regulus and 
Snape scenario I presented above could still work even if Snape's 
potion makes DD re-live his parents' deaths. It could all work 
together! Yay! In fact, I think I like it better than the potion 
being Snape's own memories or regrets, because it might supply some 
real answers for the main plotline of The Horcrux Hunt. 

The question I have about this theory then is
 based on what he says 
as he drinks the potion, I wonder why young Dumbledore blames 
himself for his parents' deaths? What a sad idea. Hmmm


<snip> of lovely quoted DD to back up your idea


-Celia, happy to unload that whole Regulus thing from her head after 
pondering it for so long