On the perfection of moral virtues

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 168789

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip> 
> > Huzzah, Ron.
> > Only not.  Because the very next year, Ron has the *exact* same 
> > problem.  

> >>Pippin:
> Except it's not the *exact* same problem, because Harry wasn't
> around for the big game in OOP. Ignoring jeers from the Slytherins
> is one thing, ignoring the fear that he might flub up in front of
> Harry is another.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Except as far as Ron's concerned it *is* the exact same problem 
because as far as Ron knew, Harry was there watching his every move.

"You didn't watch?" he said faintly, looking from one to the 
other.  "You didn't see me make any of those saves?" [OotP scholastic 
hardback p.704]

> >>Pippin:
> Harry knows it's all in Ron's head, but hearing it from Harry would 
> only make it worse, so he shows him instead. 

Betsy Hp:
Yeah, but Ron had already figured it out in OotP and didn't need 
Harry to show him anything.

"Well, I mean, I'd already let in that one of Davies's, so I wasn't 
feeling confident, but I dunno, [...] I thought -- *you can do this!
*" [ibid pp 703-704]

Ron had had his epiphany; he'd flown without his feather and he'd 
recognized that fact.  I cannot see any good reason for JKR to put us 
through a half-assed redux other than her needing some filler because 
Ron grew up a bit too fast for her taste.

> >>Dantzel:
> <snip>
> When I read a repeating flaw in a character, it makes them more    
> realistic to me because people aren't perfect.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
But this isn't a "realistic" story in that we're not dealing with 
fully fleshed totally real characters.  There's a level of the 
fantastic here.  And it's not a story about Ron's growth as a 
quidditch athlete.  So JKR repeats a side story with almost the exact 
same story points as one she's *just* told.  It comes across to me 
more as sloppy than anything else.  I'm not thinking, ah yes, very 
realistic, very true to life.  I'm thinking "we've covered this 
already let's get a move on!". <g>

> >>montims:
> See, I didn't change and grow up until I turned 30 and went to live 
> in Italy. I was the same obnoxious, selfopinionated person I was   
> growing up, although I didn't know it.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
But you're a real live person.  These are story-book characters.  
We're reading about a time in their lives that the author has 
*chosen* to share with us.

And for me, their stunted growth, their inability to face and 
overcome their flaws (and some of their flaws I find pretty 
repugnant) is *frustrating*.  I mean, I'm reading to be entertained, 
so yes, I *want* to see change.  If I were reading the story of your 
life (based on your brief description) I'd probably want to read 
about your time in Italy or when you met your husband, *not* the 
times you spent not changing.  Does that make sense?

I mean, Hermione may be a controlling, self-absorbed person until a 
sudden life-change occurs when she's fifty years old.  Well then 
*that's* what I want to read about, that moment of *change*.
  
> >>montims:
> <snip>
> I find Harry and his friends remarkably mature for 16 year olds    
> actually...

Betsy Hp:
Really?  Ron is still shivering in the shadow of his brothers (and 
super!sparkly!Ginny), as certain of his own inadequacy as he was on 
the train to Hogwarts.  Hermione is as certain that only she knows 
how the world should run thank you very much.  Harry is as certain 
that his snap judgements of people (good or evil) are accurate and 
that vengence is his.

There is a sense that a change is coming.  Harry has his Draco 
doubts, Ron is making noises about challenging the twins, and 
Hermione is... um... okay, I try not to think too hard about 
Hermione, it just gets depressing. <g>  But I think Marion's point 
was that change is a *long time coming*.  I agree and think JKR had 
to sort of spin things out a bit in the last book because she's 
saving it all up for DH.  But will it be enough?  And will it happen 
in enough time to save her characters?

Betsy Hp