[HPforGrownups] Muggleborn vs Pureblood

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 168805

> Magpie wrote:
>> The idea that Muggleborns who excel at magical studies are the exception 
>> is
>> what Slughorn is claiming, and is perhaps more disturbingly something he
>> uses in deciding how he treats students, but it isn't true and canon 
>> states
>> this outright.

Bart:
>
> You can't judge individuals by statistics. The last person who claimed
> you could drowned in a lake with an average depth of 2 feet. One problem
> is that many people are so afraid that individuals might be judged by
> statistics that they deny the statistics.

Magpie:
Who's talking about statistics? I'm talking about the Harry Potter series of 
books (the author of which I can't imagine basing anything on statistics!) 
where I read this in chapter 8:

"Harry was very relieved to find out that he wasn't miles behind everyone 
else. Lots of people had come from Muggle families and, like him, hadn't

had any idea that they were witches and wizards. There was so much to learn 
that even people like Ron didn't have much of a head start."



People like Ron--magically raised people--don't have much of a head start. 
And I've never seen any reason to think a Muggle-upbringing effected 
anybody's experience in class.



Bart:
> Magic, in the books, is shown to be mostly a matter of book study and
> physical skill. There is a natural talent, such as understanding of
> magical theory. However, if JKR is saying that those kids who grew up
> with magic around them do not do statistically better than those who
> have never been exposed to magic before their 11th birthday, then I am
> afraid she's wrong.

Magpie:
She's wrong because that's not the way magic really works? I think she's 
telling you how her world works and saying that being raised magical isn't 
that much of a head start.  I can see the logic in your claims that just 
being in a magical environment is an advantage but canon seems to not only 
deny it's enough to be significant, but make it  sort of a prominent 
plotpoint that it's something bigots say, whether by claiming "they just 
don't know our ways" or that there's a problem in their blood. Of our three 
main characters Hermione's able to come to school ahead of everyone else 
despite being raised in the wrong environment (which isn't that odd--it's 
just pointing a wand and talking) and Harry, who's been raised in the same 
environment and doesn't apply himself as much to his studies, can also 
easily compete with other students.

Bart:
>
> And it's environment, not pureblood; if you switched a muggleborn
> wizard and a pureblood wizard at birth, then the pureblood will be at
> the disadvantage.

Magpie:
But where does the text suggest that this environment causes Muggle-borns to 
not excel at magical studies? Is there anywhere in the books that actually 
describe the experience of being at the school that in any way shows a 
difference in how students Muggle-raised for the first 11 years handle 
classes? Because I'm not seeing Rowling writing a difference at all--to the 
point where I can't really imagine how it's supposed to work. Your examples 
of Hermione being dependent on the books and not appreciating the Twins 
seems to me as much tied to Hermione's and the Twins' personalities as 
Hermione being raised by Muggles. Hermione created the coins based on the DE 
marks, right?

As I said, you can certainly argue that this is the way it should work out 
logically. Plenty of people in fandom have argued that some of the attitudes 
the text seems to say are simply wrong and bad have a logical base. But 
since this is a book and there is not real world to look at, I think the 
words the author uses to describe the situation in the books trump most 
other things in saying how it works.

-m