On the perfection of moral virtues (long)

[phoenixgod2000]

No: HPFGUIDX 168886


> Marion:
> Gosh. Snape as the Root Of All Evil. Now *that's* original... <bg>

Well, he isn't responsible for Original Sin, but I'm not convinced 
he wasn't in the Garden :)
 
> And then it turns out in DH that Snape was already working for DD 
when that prophecy was made, and that DD, being selfappointed 
warchief against Voldemort, ordered his spy to 'leak' the first half 
of the prophecy to Voldemort.

But if Snape was DDM and already a spy which equals him being an 
excellent Occlmens, why wouldn't Dumbledore have given Snape a fake 
Prophecy to deliver, hell, why wait till a real one was made? Why 
not send Voldemort into a tailspin with some improbable prophecy 
that would have him singing dumbledore's tune? hy in Merlin's name 
would you give half of a real prophecy to your enemy when you could 
give him a fake one?

> Of course, it was not such a stupid move. It worked. As a tactical 
move it was actually close to brilliant.

Not really.  It worked because the writer said it works. It's 
writers fiat. The same reason why Harry wins Quiddich matches he 
screws up and scary death eaters have the killing aim of geriatic 
Storm Troopers.  There is no logic as to why such a desperate, 
poorly thought out plan manages to work.

The military, combat side of the Voldemort War is one of the weakest 
parts of the books. Frankly no one on either side is all that 
competent.  Years ago, I started a thread about DD as a general and 
I still think he measures up to be incompetent at strategy.

> And besides, why the hell didn't Lily and James make DD their 
secret keeper?

well, if we are being theoretical, maybe for the same reason DD 
doesn't make Harry a prefect in OOTP, namely, because he has enough 
on his mind.  He is busy losing a war after all.

>Why didn't they make *eachother* their secret keeper?

maybe the secret keeper has to stay away from the secret and they 
didn't want to be seperated.

> Let's not forget their own responsibility in their demise.

Blame the victim, nice ;)

> So, what would this mean for Hating!Harry, if he would to find out 
in DH that it was *Dumbledore* who was responsible for leaking that 
prophecy, in order to distract Voldemort from taking over the WW?
> I'm not asking you to believe this, as I'm not asking you to 
believe in DDM!Snape, but just try to imagine it.

I can imagine it. I imagine I would hate it.

>The Order of the Phoenix was created with the express reason to 
counter Voldemort, after all and not to sit on their collective bum 
to wait for Harry Potter to be born and save them all. It stands to 
reason that DD had a plan (probably several) to undermine Voldemort. 
DD is not stupid, after all. He would recognise a golden opportunity 
like that prophecy when it fell into his lap.

I outlined a plan above that would do the same thing, only more 
effectively and you don't even need a real prophecy to put it into 
play. You just need a world where Prophecy can exist. Actually 
giving away part of the real prophecy is the worst thing to do.
 
> The point I'm trying to make is this: would Harry, if he found out 
that Snape was not responsible for the Potter's death (strictly 
speaking it's of course Voldemort who is responsible for the 
Potter's death, Peter who betrayed them and the Potters themselves 
and Sirius who behaved quite foolishly, but since you prefer to 
blame the messenger boy I'm going along and am making DD the one who 
wants Voldemort to have partial knowledge of the prophecy), if Harry 
was to find this out, and if it turned out that everything Snape did 
was on DD orders, pact and parcel of his role as a spy against 
Voldemort, *would this make any difference to Harry's hating*?

In the story, probably.  To me, not so much. It would ever so 
slightly raise Snape's status and send Dumbledore's plumeting 
straight to hell.

> Harry has, in fact, the emotional maturity of a three year old. 

I guess we just see things differently. :)
 
> If not, then the message of the books would be that a eleven-year-
old essantially knows all that he ever needs to know. That there is 
nothing he could possibly learn from life. And that though, my 
friends, is simply to depressing to entertain.

So the message should be that he should just be a good little monkey 
and politely go where the manipulators who know better than he does 
tells him to go?  that all those people who he'd saved when the 
adults couldn't or wouldn't should be dead because Harry needs to 
learn his place?  

That sounds worse than me.

If anything, Harry needs to learn to stand up to more people. He let 
Dumbledore off far too lightly in HBP and Snape...

there aren't enough hours in the day for me to explain what Harry 
should do to Snape.

phoenixgod2000