Ron and Hermione supporting Harry WAS: Re: GoF fight between Harry and Ron

[montavilla47]

No: HPFGUIDX 168981

Montavilla47:
The whole thing was set up like an eleven-year-old's
obstacle course.  Harry even suggests that DD wanted him to have the
chance to tackle it.  

Carol responds:
An eleven-year-old's obstacle course? They could have been killed. 
<snip>
As for Dumbledore, maybe he felt that it was impossible to keep
Harry from doing what he thought he needed to do, so he gave him what
he needed to survive the obstacle course--if he and his friends solved
the mystery first. 

Montavilla47 responds:
That's a good thought, and that probably *is* what Dumbledore
was thinking.   This is where the needs of the plot outweigh
the needs of plausibility.

Because if the goal was to keep out Quirrell, it's kind of a sad
little safeguard, isn't it?  Three eleven-year-olds were able 
to get through it--one of the hardest obstacles being the dog 
(no way through that one, unless you know how to get Hagrid
to spill an important secret.)

The second obstacle is a plant that they learn how to handle 
in *first year* herbology.  

The third obstacle can be solved by anyone who can ride a 
broom.  

The fourth obstacle is the troll--they defeated the troll back
in October.

The fifth obstacle is hard, because you need to know how to
play chess.  (And, unless you decided to bring your friends 
with you, you start two pieces down).  But it's still an easy-
enough game that a twelve-year-old boy can win it.

The sixth is hard because it involves logic.  But it's a logic
problem that a twelve-year-old kid can solve.

It's sort of like that game show, "Are you Smarter than a 
Fifth Grader?"  

So, plot-wise I don't think DD *set it up* as a test for 
Harry.  But I think he did know that it was good for 
Harry to flex his hero muscles on a relatively easy 
course.  The "bunny slope" of quests, as it were.

***
Alla:
In PoA once again, if we put life debt aside, which I agree would
play a role at the end, I believe that Sirius and Lupin would have
dealt with Peter quite nicely without Harry interference.
 
Montavilla47:
I agree with you about that one.  But I wouldn't blame Harry for the
moon coming out.  <snip more thoughts that I agree with>

Carol responds:
I don't understand this line of thinking.
<snip>
At any rate, it seems to me that Harry did the right thing, regardless
of the unintended consequences, and Black and Lupin would have
committed a terrible wrong--in front of three kids, no less--had it
not been for him. He saved *their skins* as well as Wormtail's and
kept their souls from splitting.

Would it have been worth their lives and souls to keep Wormtail from
escaping and restoring Voldemort? I think that LV would have found
someone else, say Barty Jr., to restore him even if Wormtail didn't.
 
Carol, who thinks that Harry will be rewarded for his mercy when
Wormtail pays his life debt

Montavilla47:
Well, I don't disagree with you, Carol.  I also believe that it will
be important that Harry showed mercy.  

Would it have been worth their lives and souls to keep Wormtail
from escaping and restoring Voldemort?  I think that probably 
Sirius and Lupin would have agree that it was--if that had been
the ultimate outcome.

After all, wasn't that what they were signing up for when they
joined the Order?  To aid in the fight against Voldemort?  Don't you
think Sirius would have gladly died to prevent Harry from going 
through what he did in the Graveyard?  

Now, I definitely agree that Voldemort would have found a way
to restore his body.   I don't think it would have been Barty, Jr.
Voldemort didn't know Barty was alive until Wormtail met up 
with Bertha Jorkins.  But it would have been someone.

Wasn't it DD who told Harry that you can't completely get rid
of Voldemort?  That all you can do is to try and make it harder
for him to come back?

Montavilla47