The trouble with Quidditch

[Ken Hutchinson]

No: HPFGUIDX 169002

>
> > Ken:
> >
> > Evidently our author isn't enough of a sports fan to see the strategic
> > nuances of the game she invented.
> 
> 
> Shelley
>
> I would disagree with you on that last comment! I think Rowling presented
> the answer in text as to how she understands "strategic nuances" in
> Hermione's comment. If Krum really did think, and know beyond any doubt that
> they would lose, then it is much preferable to lose by only 10 points than
> to lose by several hundred, and be remembered for centuries as the team that
> got slaughtered in the World Cup. This way, Krum remains the hero who saved
> his team from humiliation, and everyone remembers the game as "great but
> fierce", "close" and with other memorable phrases that aren't derogatory to
> his team.
> 

Ken:

But that is just it, Shelly, the only way a Quidditch match can be "close" is
if the final score is lopsided! In any match in which the chaser performance
is evenly matched the winning margin is going to be right at 150 points.
Losing 170-160 by catching the snitch not only doesn't make the match
close, it makes the losing team look rather clueless. Winning 170-160
by catching the snitch is still a win but it makes the winner look very
lucky indeed because their chasers were hopelessly outmatched.

> Shelley
>
> Your strategy depends on one thing- leadership of their team captain. A
> time-out would have been called, and this captain would have had to instruct
> his players to the new strategy- and I think it was too early in the game
> for that. They weren't losing by THAT much at the point the snitch was
> caught. Or maybe Krum knew that his team Captain would have never chosen
> such a strategy, so that he chose an early defeat rather than a humiliating
> one. Krum caught the snitch away from Lynch before any of that happened, and
> chose to end the game on his own terms. I think we see plenty of times when
> Wood is coaching Harry as a seeker not to catch the snitch before a certain
> point level, proving that yes indeed the Seeker alone makes the real
> determination of when to end the game.
> 
> I also see the twin's predictions of the outcome (Ireland wins, but Krum
> catches the snitch) as knowledge of the teams and how they have played
> before this World Cup Match. Obviously, Krum is a great Snitch Catcher, and
> so my bet is that is how they have won all or most of their games- by
> catching the Snitch early in the game before the other team had gained
> significant points on them. 

Ken:

Any team that plays on the international level and makes it into the world
cup finals is going to have more in the way of strategy than let's go out on
the field and see how it goes. Unless they used a time turner the Twin's 
bet was probably based on previous performance, as you say. The Bulgarians
would have gone into the game with a strategy to defeat the Irish. They 
didn't need to get 160 points behind and call a time out to come up with
one. Catching the snitch to lose 170-160 is not just humiliating, it is 
doubly humiliating.

Wood only coaches Harry about holding off on catching the snitch for one 
match, even though he does it a lot before that one match. The Hogwarts
house cup rules are different, it would seem, than the world cup final.
Gryffindor needed the points to win, 150 was not enough in that case
and merely winning the match was not enough. If anything like that 
applies in the world cup final it isn't mentioned and even if it did apply
Krum's team apparently still came up short.

> > Shelley
>
> Also, for strategies- Krum is young, and chances are good he would still be
> playing the following year. Yes, he got on a team that took him to the World
> Cup, but one that didn't have enough strength in the scoring section to be
> able to lead them to true victory in the end. He's probably got some of his
> own strategic planning in there- to find a team for the next year with great
> scoring potential as well, 

Ken:

As a motivation for Krum I will buy this. As a defense of the Quidditch scoring
system or the Bulgarian stragtegy in the match I don't.

> Debi:
> 
> I have to disagree, first, its her game, her invention. 
> 

Ken:

And that proves she understands it because ... ?

> Debi:
> 
> Second, how do you know its allowed for a team to actively slow down the
> other team, if teams could just focus on slowing each other down until their
> seekers found the snitch, where is the sportsmanship in that?  I would think
> rules regarding chasers and beaters are exact, chasers are chasers, not a
> defensive line, beaters the same. Many sports games have ruled to what each
> type of player can and can't do. A defensive player plays defence, and is not
> allowed to play offence, I would assume that strategy would end up in a
> penalty.
> 

Ken:

I've seen no indication in the text of the novels that there are any restrictions
on how the players are deployed. In that match for the house cup in PoA
the Slytherins send their whole team, including their goal keeper, to try to 
block the Gryffindor chaser and Harry nearly loses the match by dive bombing
the blockers! The Bulgarians are playing a very physical game where the 
Irish seem more of a finesse team. That actually could have been worked 
into a plausible strategy for the Bulgarians. By playing smash mouth Quidditch
and depending on Krum to keep Lynch off the Snitch they might have worn
down the Irish to the point where they could pull back within 140 points
and then turn Krum loose on the snitch. To do that you have to be willing
to drop behind by a considerable amount and wait for the other team to 
run out of steam. The trouble is that the Bulgarians are not portrayed as 
having a strategy and Krum did not have to catch the snitch to prevent
Lynch from catching it because Lynch crashed into the ground for no 
reason at all as far as I can see.

> Debi:
> 
> Third, I'm assuming the Bulgarian team never considered they would loose.

Ken:

Ok, but how does that square with Krum catching the snitch in a situation
where Bulgaria was certain to lose? It is clear to me that the world cup
match is written entirely to highlight Krum, not to make a memorable
sports scene. The final score means nothing, the Irish flattened the
Bulgarians, the match is chiefly interesting for the behavior of the team
mascots.

The best argument that the Quidditch scoring system is flawed comes from
the real world, not canon. It is simply this: there is no popular sport that
has an equivalent scoring system.

Ken