On the perfection of moral virtues.

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 169033

> Carol:
> But Snape *was* in prsonal danger in SS/PS. He was injured by Fluffy
> trying to thwart Quirrell and could have been killed. (Exactly why 
> he entered the corridor at that point has never been clear to me.)

Mike:
I was never under the impression that Fluffy was put there to *kill* 
any intruders. I thought he was there to deter anyone from trying to 
get past him, despite Dumbledores dire warning at the start of term 
feast of "... to die a very painful death." I'm just not believing 
that Dumbledore would allow a murderous three-headed dog to be 
encountered by first year students (accidently, mind you), especially 
since a simple Alohomora spell was the only requirement to get into 
dangerous proximity. Besides, I think Snape had a few more spells at 
his disposal to thwart Fluffy's heads.


> Carol: 
> <snip>  Had Snape not been performing the countercurse, there 
> would have been no Harry for her to accidentally save. <snip>

Mike:
Can I just interject here for a moment. Why do we think that 
Snape "save Harry's life" by performing the countercurse?

Didn't Neville bounce down the lane when his Uncle Algie drops him 
from an upper window? Doesn't Hagrid tell us it's preposterous that 
Lilly and James could have died from a automobile accident? There 
were many hundreds of wizarding students and probably a fair few 
qualified witches and wizards present. Could none of them perform a 
cushioning charm if Harry had fallen off? In fact, didn't JKR tell us 
(too lazy to find the exact quote) that wizards and witches die from 
wizarding afflictions and not common Muggle afflictions or accidents?

Dumbledore told Harry that James saved Snape's life, but he only said 
that Snape was "protect"ing Harry all year. Not that Snape ever 
*saved Harry's life*.

I just think Snape is getting credit for something that didn't rise 
to the level of *life-saving*. Protecting, yes, that's what 
Dumbledore called it, but saving Harry's life - IMO that gives him 
too much credit.


> Carol:
> Snape was in grave danger from Voldemort whether he knew it or not,
> and I think he did know it. [re: confronting Quirrell]

Mike:
Only upon Voldemort's *possible* re-animation, not at this time 
though. He's more than a match for Quirrell even with LV attached.


> Carol:
> He was also in grave danger when he returned to Voldemort with 
> his prepared cover story (which is how I read "If you are ready,
> if you are prepared") for his actions relating to Quirrell 
> (and reasons for not being in the graveyard).

Mike:
Yes, I agree. Inside our timeline - that is during actual book time 
and not previous to Nov 1, 1991 - this is definitely when Snape is in 
true mortal danger, and in my opinion, the only time. But lets give 
him his due, noone can know how LV is going to treat Snape at this 
time. (Of course this presupposes DDM!Snape, which camp I count 
myself a member of, despite my detestation of Sevie. Otherwise, that 
is if Snape is still on LV's team, then he is not in any real danger.)


> Carol:
> He also placed himself in grave danger by facing a werewolf about to
> transform and a man he thought had betrayed the Potters and murdered
> thirteen people in PoA. The danger from the werewolf, at least, was
> very real. 

Mike:
First off, if he's in such danger why doesn't he bring the Wolfsbane 
potion with him? And please don't tell me he'll spill it. I'm sure 
Severus can come up with a bubble charm or some such to keep it from 
spilling. Also, remember he was only aware of Lupin heading for the 
Womping Willow, he knew not of the trio, Black, nor Pettigrew already 
in the Shack. Snape doesn't seem that concerned with the 
possibilities, and he has the history to know what he's in for.

Secondly, is tying up an untransformed werewolf enough to thwart him? 
Well, Snape seemed to think that was enough, didn't he? So he still 
didn't seem to take Lupin as that much of a threat to life and limb.

Finally, if there was actual mortal danger, who prevented Lupin from 
killing anyone? That's right, Sirius Black in his animagus dog form. 
So either Snape felt there was no real mortal danger in the 
possibility of facing a werewolf, or he rather stupidly relied on 
someone else coming to his rescue. Someone that he didn't know was 
there when he left the castle and someone he didn't know had the 
ability to transform into an animal large enough to thwart a 
werewolf. Which version of Snape do you like?


> Carol:
> We know that he spied for Dumbledore "at great personal risk," 
> which surely means the peril of death if Voldemort found out.
> He's doing the same thing from the end of GoF onward, again risking
> death by sending the Order to the MoM. (I won't even talk about  
> the risk he's facing now from both sides.)

Mike:
As I said above, I agree with this assessment. 


> Carol, assuming DDM!Snape, of course

Mike, who still despises DDM!Snape, despite his belief in his 
DDMness. ;)