Snape's involvement in the murder of Sirius

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 169077

> zgirnius:
> I have difficulty believing Dumbledore would not straighten him out
> a bit, for his own safety, at some point during GoF when they 
> arrive at the conclusion that Voldemort is coming back and Snape 
> will return to him as and resume his role as Dumbledore's spy. 
> (That this was discussed prior to the actual events is implicit in
> Dumbledore's words and Snape;es reponse.)
> 
> > GoF, "The Parting of the Ways":
> > "Severus," said Dumbledore, turning to Snape, "you know what I 
> > must ask you to do. If you are ready . . . if you are 
> > prepared ..."
> 
> > "I am," said Snape.
> 
> zgirnius:
> Snape knows what Dumbledore is talking about, and he has prepared 
> for it in advance. Claer enough,m it seems to me, that this has 
> been discussed.

Jen:  I'm in complete agreement that Dumbledore and Snape talked 
about Peter being alive and on his way to locate Voldemort since that 
would impact Snape's life if Voldemort returned now that he has the 
help of a servant.  Dumbledore dispenses information on a need-to-
know basis and that would be high on the list of things Snape would 
need to know.

What Snape doesn't know is that Dumbledore has been in contact with 
Sirius and considers him a loyal member of the inner circle to be 
present in the hospital room the night of Voldemort's rebirth. 
Dumbledore has not given Snape all the information he knows as is par 
for the course with DD or Snape would not react to Sirius appearing.  
So it's unclear what Snape does and doesn't know about Sirius' escape 
the previous year

zgirnius:
> Of course, nothing obligates Snape to change his mind about 
> Sirius's previous attempt to kill *him*, which to my mind is more
> than enough to explain his attitude in GoF, OotP, and HBP. 

Jen:  I suppose it could be enough, although it sure seems like 
Dumbledore's treatment of Snape at the end of POA and believing 
Sirius over Snape again would rub salt in old wounds.  And to see 
Sirius reappear and be considered loyal enough to be part of 
Dumbledore's inner circle when Snape *does* believe him capable of 
murder would be yet another burden to bear, as well as Snape not 
having all the information to determine why Dumbledore believes 
Sirius is trustworthy. 

zgirnius:
> Why should Snape care if Sirius is dead, when Sirius's own attitude 
> conveys to Snape so clearly that Sirius would regard his death with 
> no more concern?

Jen:  I don't think Snape should care, however, he's not the one who 
ended up dead so we'll never know Sirius' reaction.  Sirius was 
supposed to stay at Grimmauld place and didn't and that's his choice 
and consequence.  Snape's job as a double-agent was to deliver 
intelligence to Dumbledore that would keep the type of plot that 
occurred in OOTP from happening and for whatever reason, he wasn't 
able to access enough information or do so in a timely enough fashion 
to prevent Harry going to the DOM.  Occlumency was a failed 
proposition and apparently there was no plan B to take its place even 
though Voldemort was gearing up for the big event of getting Harry to 
the DOM.  

Zara:
> And of course, if Dumbledore communicated the whole story, Snape 
> might still blame Sirius. It was his lame idea to use Peter in the 
> first place. Sirius blames himself for this in PoA.

Jen: Yes, no argument here!

zgirnius:
> Dumbledore was then forced to spend a deal of time talking Fudge
> around to the idea that Lupin was at least not an accomplice of 
> Black, and had only been, like Snape, trying to help the kids. You
> may hold a different opinion, but I cannot imagine that Fudge 
> thought Lupin should continue in his role as a teacher after those 
> revelations no matter how favorably Dumbledore tried to paint his 
> actions.

Jen:  My only point was that there's no mention in POA that 
Dumbledore planned to have Lupin stay.  In fact, given Dumbledore's 
knowledge of the curse I'd say he was certain Lupin *wasn't* staying 
to teach more than one year when he hired him.  Snape acted alone 
there.

> zgirnius:
> If Peter was talking (and why whould Dumbledore and Snape believe
> he was not?), none of this was news to Voldemort. He should have 
> known Sirius was an Animagus, and that Sirius offered Harry a home
> and Harry, who has lousy guarduians, accepted joyfully. This is all
> stuff Scabbers/Peter knows.

Jen:  Sirius does conjecture Peter blew his animagus disguise and 
that's the information we get about it.  As for Peter knowing about 
the offer of a home, I've re-read that section in POA and can't tell 
that Peter would have heard or listened to Harry and Sirius.  He's 
walking with Lupin and Ron, behind is Snape, and behind him are Harry 
and Sirius.  Anyway, Peter wouldn't know more intimate information 
about the progression of the relationship between Sirius and Harry, 
where Sirius regards him as a mix between a son and a brother and 
Sirius is the one Harry would go to any lengths to save.  That's got 
to come from someone later on.

Jen