The Effect of the Prophecy

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 169174

---  "Charmed Force" <ceeeff at ...> wrote:
>
> ...
> 
> What's the big deal with the second half of the 
> Prophecy? I mean, really, we already knew it was kill
> or be killed. 
> 
> 
> The first part:
> "The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord 
> approaches
 born to those who have thrice defied him,
> born as the seventh month dies
and the Dark Lord shall
> mark him as his equal, but he will have power the
> Dark Lord knows not
"
> 
> 
> The second part:
> "and either must die at the hand of the other for 
> neither can live while the other survives
the one 
> with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born
> as the seventh month dies
"
> 
> 

bboyminn:

Actually, you've divided it wrong. Voldemort doesn't
know about the '...mark him as his equal...". Dumbledore
and Harry discuss this very issue after Dumbledore 
reveals the Prophesy to Harry.

What Voldemort knows -
"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord 
approaches... born to those who have thrice defied him,
born as the seventh month dies..."

That is enough to determine who the 'Prophecy Boy' is.

What we know -
"...and the Dark Lord shall mark him as his equal, but 
he will have power the Dark Lord knows not... and either
must die at the hand of the other for neither can live 
while the other survives...the one with the power to 
vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month
dies..."

So, Voldemort only knows enough to determine who the 
kids are (Harry and/or Neville), but nothing beyond 
that.

Several people have commented that they couldn't see 
why Voldemort even cared about the Prophecy because it 
really doesn't tell him much...no secret ways to defeat 
Harry, etc.... But /we/ say that because we've heard it
all; Voldemort has not. He doesn't know what it does or 
doesn't say, that therefore in his mind, it /could/ 
possibly say something the might be of benefit to him.

> Charmed Force: 
> 
> Once Voldemort marked Harry as his equal, I assumed 
> one would have to kill the other. I never thought that
> it could be anyone else. ...
> 

bboyminn:

That is the most straight forward interpretation of the
Prophecy, but the Prophecy is intentionally vague. So,
we don't know for sure.

For example (though not a really good one) -

" and either must die at the hand of the other for 
neither can live while the other survives..."

On the assumption that three people are potentially
involved (Harry, Neville, and Voldemort), why couldn't
this be a valid interpretation -

'...and either Harry or Voldemort must die at the hand
of Neville for neither Harry or Voldemort can live 
while Neville survives...'

...or change 'either' to 'Harry and Neville' and 'other'
to 'Voldemort', or 'either' becomes 'Neville and 
Voldemort' and 'other' becomes 'Harry'.

Those are probably not right, but they are fair 
interpretations, and there in lies the problem. Many
interpretations are possible, one interpretation is
more likely, but which one is right? Well, that is
the whole joy of 'Prophecy', you don't know exactly
how to interpret them until after-the-fact, when all
the details are known, and even then it is sometimes
somewhat ambiguous. Are you making the facts fit the
Prophecy or does the Prophecy fit that facts? 

> Charmed Force:
> From posts I've read here and at other boards and lists,
> it seems that people are caught up in that one part of 
> the Prophecy that was hidden from Harry until the end of
> OotP. Was there something I missed or am currently 
> missing that would make that last bit so critical and 
> important?
> 
> 
> Charmed Force

bboyminn:

We are generally not so concerned with the hidden portion
because we know what is says. But, it is a mystery to
Voldemort, and it /could/ contain an important clue. For
all Voldemort knows the Prophecy says the he is 
vulnerable at the Full Moon, and Harry is vulnerable at
the New  Moon, and the balance in between those times 
shifts according to which lunar event they are closest 
to. Half way between New and Full, they are of equal 
power.

Again, that's not true, but not having heard the 
Prophecy, Voldemort doesn't know that, and that is
exactly the kind of 'loophole' Voldemort was hoping
to find.

Also, the second half contains the most important and
ambiguous line '... and either must die at the hand of 
the other for neither can live while the other 
survives...'. That in itself is self-contradictory 
since both are living now while the other survives. 

I've often speculated that 'death' is the key. Perhaps,
at the death of one, the other becomes vulnerable. So,
if Harry could experience technical death, Neville or
someone could kill Voldemort, then Harry could be 
brought back to life. Keep in mind that I am speaking
of /technical/ death not literal irreversible death. 
People /technically' die all the time and are brought
back in real life.

Don't know how much that helps, but there it is.

Steve/bboyminn