Marietta

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 169304

 
> > Pippin:
> > 
> > Hermione disregarded Marietta's rights, and did so not in some
> > kind of ticking bomb scenario, but with no more thought than
> > she would discard the wrapper on a Chocolate Frog. 
> 
> Charles:
> Nice double standard there. Marietta is innocent of doing the thing
> that caused the hex to come into effect, but Hermione is guilty of
> callous, unthinking viciousness for putting a ***CONDITIONAL*** hex on
> a piece of parchment. 

Pippin:
What double standard? That I charged Hermione, an innocent person, 
with a crime? Um, that's the way the system works, at least where I live. 
*Every* person accused of a crime is innocent -- until proven guilty.
I am not attempting to inflict any punishments on her, nor do I think  
she should be punished without due process. I can't help thinking it 
would serve her right, but that would make *me* a tyrant. Not worth it.

Charles:
She stated that signing the parchment meant
> agreeing not to reveal what they were doing. That shows more thought
> than simply tossing aside litter.

Pippin:
"Believe me, if anyone's run off and told Umbridge, we'll know
exactly who they are and they will really regret it." -Hermione,
OOP ch 17

Hermione took it on herself not only to identify the culprit
but to punish them, and to punish them in a way that was
excessive, IMO. I don't recall the group voting to give her that 
authority, nor would excessive cruelty be justified even if they did. 

What they agreed, and *all* they agreed, was not to tell 
Umbridge or anyone else what they were doing.

The implied penalty was ostracism and expulsion from the
group, the usual student punishments. Harry told everyone there
that this was not a revolutionary group, its purpose was to teach
defense so that they could pass their exams and be prepared if
Voldemort attacked them. If it wasn't a revolutionary group,
and its purposes were defensive, why should its members 
expect to be subjected to such vicious retaliation? 

> 
> Charles again:
> 
> I really don't think that Hermione violated Marietta's rights. That
> hex was activated by Marietta's actions. If Marietta was not guilty of
> her treason, then she would not have had any ill effects. Period. The
> impartial judge here was the contract. 

Pippin:
In the US and the UK, it doesn't matter how obvious the evidence
against you is, you still have an *absolute* right to plead innocence
and present a defense before a  jury. Unless you plead guilty, the judge 
decides your penalty only after the jury has ruled.

The evidence against Sirius was overwhelming too. He probably would 
have gone to Azkaban even if he'd been given a chance to defend himself, 
especially if Peter could not be found. But does that mean that his rights 
weren't violated? Hardly, IMO. 

Charles:
It is a simple matter of logic.
> The logic put into the contract was "If A, then B"--"If anyone who
> signs this parchment tries to destroy the lives of everyone else who
> signed by revealing our activities, their face will be covered with
> purple pustules that form the word sneak."

Pippin:
I'd have  fewer problems with the contract if it had actually
stated that. You have to wonder, if a  hex like this is such a great idea 
why aren't The Order or Voldemort using it? Voldemort wouldn't
use it because he doesn't trust anyone, period, and Dumbledore,
I imagine, didn't use it because the Order was open only to those
adults whom he trusted enough to ask to join it.  Those would
be people of deep conviction who, if they decided to betray him, 
would not have let something like  the sneak hex get in the way of 
doing it. 
 
Charles:
> And please remember that no matter what Marietta's motivations were,
> she knew that she was in effect damning twenty-some odd students.

Pippin:
No, she did not. The only information Marietta volunteered was that
if Umbridge was in the 7th floor corridor at a certain time she'd hear
something to her advantage. That did not bring the sneak hex into
effect, and if Umbridge had acted on that information then the DA
would simply have been out of action until they found a safer 
place to meet. I'm not saying what Marietta did was right, but
it seems her intention was to find a way to quit the group without 
offending Cho or getting anyone into trouble.


What threats or pressure Umbridge used to extract the information
that there was going to be some kind of meeting we don't know,
but we did see her manhandle Marietta and shout at her.  

 
Also, Marietta didn't take any action until they started practicing to 
repel dementors. At that time the dementors were still considered
loyal servants of the Ministry. Harry had denied that he was planning 
any revolutionary actions, and them he started teaching them how to 
defend themselves from the Ministry's enforcers. Of course in
Harry's mind the dementors were dark creatures who were going to
join Voldemort any day, but there's no canon that he shared that
view with the class. 

It'd be a bit like joining a self-defense class taught by a known 
radical who declared that his intentions were peaceful, and then 
being shown how to smuggle weapons past security. Marietta
could have been worried  that  Harry really was part of a plot against 
the Ministry and was involving people in that without their knowledge.

Pippin