(Very Rambling) Responses to Marietta

[montavilla47]

No: HPFGUIDX 169331

> Montavilla47:
> One of the customs was to shave a woman's head if she was caught. The
> intention being to mark and humilate her as a traitor to her people.
> Obviously, this wouldact as a deterrant to others.
> 
> Did it? I suppose so, since we don't have Zacharias Smith ( for
> example)cutting deals with Umbridge to implicate the rest of the group. 
> 
> Magpie:
> I can see the thinking behind the situation in France, but in this case the
> group was already all caught once Umbridge had the list. And although
> there's no indication that Zach Smith had any desire to betray the group,
> he couldn't have done so once Marietta had finished. The group can only be
> betrayed to Umbridge once.

Montavilla47:
I suppose so, although Zacharias could have traded testimony for 
immunity (or just payback) by letting Umbridge know that the club
*had* been meeting several times since becoming illegal.

That's another odd thing, because Umbridge just drops the charges
against the DA once Dumbledore claims responsbility for it.  She
could have, if she really wanted to, have tried to gather more 
testimony and get Harry expelled for leading it, at least.  But maybe
it was enough to her to have Dumbledore leave so that she could
take over.

> Montavilla47:
> We haven't even touched on the most incompetent thing that
> Hermione did--which was to leave the parchment tacked up in the
> room for Umbridge to find. Seems like the first rule of organizing
> a secret organization is that you don't leave the membership list
> lying around--and if you do, the first thing you do before fleeing
> the area in a panic is to set the darn thing on fire.
> 
> Magpie:
> I think Hermione's actions are consistent this way too. Remember when they
> have that first meeting they're scolded for doing exactly the wrong thing
> by having it in a pub that's suspicious. Hermione really doesn't have the
> right mindset for protecting the group--or for this kind of group in
> general, at times. She's sort of doing what she imagines an underground
> group would do while doing stuff that members of the Order or the DA see as
> sending up red flags.

Montavilla47:
You're making me laugh, Magpie, because you're reminding me of the 
ridiculous job Hermione did in trying to pump Burke (or was it Borgin)
for information about Malfoy.  She really is the world's worst spy, isn't 
she?  Although Harry's bright idea to infiltrate the train compartment is
right up there.

Magpie:
> I do agree, too, that even beyond that there's this trouble of exactly what
> the DA is and a lopsided view. Most of these kids have no reason to be
> personally loyal to Harry--Zach, for instance, seems thought badly of
> because he challenges him. And even in the final fight it comes down to
> Neville and Luna fighting because they kept checking the coins because they
> didn't have friends and this is as close as they have. They don't
> specifically go to the other kids.
> 
> Not that I missed the DA--I'm fine with Harry not teaching it anymore. But
> it does seem like it is treated like a teenaged group most of the time.

Montavilla47:
I like the way you put it:  That it's like they're playing at being an 
underground group.  

The reason that these kids aren't personally loyal to Harry is because
he's made no personal investment in them.  He likes being a teacher
well enough that you'd think he'd show some interest in them as people.
But he never really does.  

Even when Harry sits with Luna and Neville in  the train ride in HBP, he 
says they're "cooler" than the annoying girls he despises (that's sort of 
faint praise) because they went with him to the Ministry.  He's doesn't even 
think about the things that really make Luna and Neville cool.  Like her
interesting observations or Neville's gentleness.  

Sigh.  Maybe I spent too much time at the drama table in High School.  
But I just don't get why anyone *wouldn't* want to sit with Luna and 
Neville for a long train ride.  They seem like people you could hold a 
long, interesting conversation with--even if you didn't hang around
much with them during the rest of the school year.

Magpie:
> Most of these kids have no reason to be
> personally loyal to Harry--Zach, for instance, seems thought badly of
> because he challenges him.

Montavilla47:
I'm pulling this out again, because it does seem (at this point in the 
story) like a big missed opportunity with Zach.  I can't help comparing
Zacharias to Bigwig in "Watership Down."  Bigwig was *always* 
challenging Hazel as the leader of the rabbits.  None of the rabbits
hexed Bigwig behind his back, but it was clear who was in charge no
matter how pushy Bigwig got.  And, once Hazel proved himself, Bigwig 
became his strongest and most loyal ally.

I get that feeling from Zacharias.  All he's really asking Harry for is to
back up his position.  Once he was satisfied, I think he'd have been
the biggest Harry-booster of them all.

Montavilla47