[spec] Horcrux's Opposite: or, love is more powerful than the Dark Lord's kind of magic

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 169342

Kemper now:
I am assuming that the phoenix Harry saw is actually Dumbledore's 
spirit as I'm under the impression that the patronus represents the 
soul. The Dementor's Kiss sucks the soul out of it's victim. It seems 
natural that the corporeal patronus would reflect the soul and hope, 
fighting back against a soul-eater and despair.  No canon. Just 
running with the idea.

So, if the smokey phoenix is DD's spirit, then why did it not leave 
upon DD's death?

Ceridwen:
That's the first and most lasting impression I got from the white-
smoke phoenix, that this was Dumbledore's soul or spirit being 
released.  That it was "joyful" seemed appropriate, given DD's 
attitude toward death.

In some cultures, the soul of a person doesn't immediately leave the 
vicinity when it leaves the person's body.  Stories of near-death 
experiences tend to support that view, with the person looking down 
on his or her body as rescuers attempt to reanimate it.

There are customs in various cultures which celebrate a passing a 
year after the death.  There may be a gathering, there may be gifts 
presented.  There may be a religious service.  It is then that the 
soul or spirit (I'm never quite clear what other people mean by these 
designations) moves on after a year of hanging around and saying good-
bye.

The year of mourning in the immediate family, wearing black for the 
widowed partner, waiting to re-marry, may presume the same sort of 
belief, at least early on, in western culture.

In some cultures, the funeral service is supposed to release the 
soul.  I attended a funeral once where drumming and chant singing was 
used for this purpose.  It was very moving, and it does invoke in the 
listener the idea that the spirit is now able to move on.  Stories in 
these cultures reflect this belief.

Kemper:
Another impression I get, though probably with more canonical 
support, is that DD's a planner. DD's a man who would plan for his 
death. Do we think anyone else came up with magic behind the white 
flames, white smoke (with phoenix) and white tomb? This seems to be 
DD having set his affairs in order just in case he loses his life in 
the war against Voldemort.

Ceridwen:
Hee!  Yes, I thought it was DD's doings, too.  The man's a showman!  
And, he has the knowledge and experience to carry something like this 
off.  If anything had to be done after the fact, he would have 
instructed someone he trusts with those details.

Kemper:
One of thing he may also have planned for, is a way to help Harry 
from beyond the tomb. Not by means of a ghost: DD's not afraid to 
die.  Not by a portrait: it would be an echo of DD, empty, hollow and 
redundant. Not by a memory: pensieves have been ad nauseam. I'm 
thinking the help would come from DD's phoenix spirit. (JKR mentioned 
to Daniel Radcliffe she was having trouble with DD, maybe she was 
having trouble anthropomorphizing the phoenix with DD?)

Ceridwen:
JKR's problem with Dumbledore could mean a memory trip chapter (maybe 
the Prank?), or it could mean something else.  Some people have 
mentioned that ghosts exist for various reasons, one of which is 
unfinished business, so DD could also manifest as a ghost, IMO.  I'd 
still rather see one or more memory chapters showing rather than 
explaining certain mysteries in the series.  ;)

Pensieve memories are a possibility, but I can't see DD just leaving 
a bunch of memories lying around where invading DEs and sundry others 
could get at them.  That wouldn't discount the phoenix spirit 
helping, too.  In defeating LV, more help is always better.

If a portrait could manage more than catch-phrases, it would be DD's, 
in my opinion.  But so far, we haven't seen many times when Harry is 
alone in the head's office for there to be a private conversation.  
If Harry is out searching for HXs, he may not even spend a lot of 
time at Hogwarts, leaving the research to Hermione.  It could happen, 
and it might.  But I think that would be the least of DD's help in DH.

Kemper:
DD's spirit (soul) will be allowed to remain on earth by means of an 
Opposite Horcrux.

Ceridwen:
I'm snipping the rest.  This is interesting, and others have 
speculated some HX sort of thing for DD.  So far, the only magic we 
*know* of that allows for a soul to be tied to the earth is Dark 
Magic of the evilest variety.  It involves killing someone else and 
shredding off a piece of the soul.  I can see mirrored Light Magic, 
sure.  But I would like to hear speculation about how such a thing - 
why not just call it a Hallow, since the book is titled Deathly 
Hallows? - would be made.

It can't be made through murder, that would make it Dark.  If we look 
at things like a circle, or an artist's color-wheel, then there would 
be something on the Light side that *differentiates*, not shreds, a 
piece of soul without murdering, yet leaves it intact inside the host 
until death.

Maybe that magic is the Patronus.  Just speculating here, without a 
full cup of coffee yet (yes, Kemper, it's late *and* it's early!), 
but if the phoenix seen at DD's funeral is the release of soul or 
spirit, then as Kemper was guessing, the Patronus is the person's 
soul representative.  It is a part of a soul, but not divorced from 
the core soul as LV's HXs are.  It is created originally from a very 
good memory, and it fights Dark creatures.

It would also not prevent death, which is unnatural.

(In fact, if the initial creation of a Patronus involves 
differentiating a part of the soul for this purpose, maybe that's why 
it's difficult to create one at first - more speculation)

If the Patronus is a form of Opposite Horcrux, then it carries the 
intent of the originating soul.  It may have hung around until the 
funeral because it was DD's intent for it to do so.  Or, the fire 
could have released it at DD's intent, because I do agree that the 
whole spectacle of the White Tomb was Dumbledore's doing.  The fire 
may release the magic.

Interesting thoughts!  I hope someone else adds to the speculation!

Ceridwen.