[HPforGrownups] Re: Responses to Marietta (was: Misc. responses, some quite old)

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 169364

bboyminn:

Again, there is that overstatement, and that extreme 
position that I am trying to moderate. There is nothing
ruthless and unjust here. This is a school where kids
routinely sprout antlers and have cumquats coming out
of their ears, not to mention teeth and toenails growing
to extreme proportions. A few spots on your face are not
that big a deal, though a /bigger/ deal in this case 
since they haven't found a way to undo them. Yet, I have
no doubt that those trying to /undo/ them, are still
looking for a solution. They haven't given up and declare
this an evil permanent act, so I see no reason why we 
should declare it either evil or permanent.

If Marietta still has spots when she is 50, I'll be
willing to agree it might be permanent, and that it 
might now be starting to skirt the edges of evil, but
you'll hardly get me to agree before that.

Magpie:
I think, though, that part of your moderation strikes some of us as
changing canon or changing the actual disagreement.  Or else you're just
not hearing the one side's position. 

Of course this situation wouldn't be a problem if Marietta's condition
really wasn't bad at all, and was on its way to be cured as we speak. But
that's not the case. She doesn't just have "spots" on her face--and while I
know "spots" is British for acne, it's still a lot cuter than close-set
purple pustules, which is disgusting to read, much less picture.

Similarly disfiguring acne or any disfiguring skin condition is a big deal.
The fact that Marietta can function has nothing to do with anything. By
that rule a lot of the stuff Voldemort has done to many characters isn't
too bad. I think I'm judging Marietta's condition based entirely on what it
is, and I think it is a surprisingly cruel thing to do. And I don't think
I'm exaggerating the condition one bit to get there. You may not have the
same visceral reaction to the idea of Marietta walking around this way over
a year later, but I honestly do.

I don't think Hermione is "evil" now because she's done it, but I don't
think it's a compromise between the two positions to do what I think
wynnleaf described, which is to change things by downplaying the hex or
assuming it temporary when so far we've gotten information that indicates
it isn't (in the next book JKR thinks to show us the hex is still on and
Harry's still pleased with it--the pleasure coming from the on-going
suffering and humiliation). That pretty much removes the very problems I'm
stuck with, and to me it seems to undercut the argument that there is no
problem, because it suggests that to defend it, it helps to get rid of the
difficult parts.

Steve:
Both Marietta and Hermione made mistakes, but you are 
allowed to make mistakes when you are a teen. That's 
how you, hopefully, learn not to make mistakes in the
future. You learn far more from making a mistake than
you do from you parent continually brow-beating you.

Magpie:
But in this scenario Hermione is the only one allowed to make mistakes, so
far at least. Marietta's mistake is punished daily in the form of her face
being disfigured--which seems even worse than constant brow-beating from a
parent. Meanwhile, Hermione so far, doesn't seem to think she even has
anything to learn. According to Harry, the voice of "our" side and many
fans, Hermione didn't make a mistake. She went easy on Marietta. Hermione's
never shown a moment's discomfort with any of it while Marietta's
disfigured. If the hex actually had been temporary I think we could say
they both made a mistake, but it's already gone on long enough to be a
problem.

Steve:
But I refuse to characterize either of the people or
their actions as EVIL. What I'm trying to do is to
get people to dial back their rhetoric and see things
in the proper perspective in the perspective of this
unique world where people are given shoe by their 
relatives, shoes that try to eat their feet.

Magpie:
Sure, I don't think it's evil either. But it can be not evil and still what
it so far is described as in canon. And canonically, I think it actually is
bad. Stuff like "shoes eating their feet" usually happen as funny asides.
Marietta's hex is played much more realistically--more like Neville's
parents dealing with their own longterm problems--sometimes magic is played
that way too. As a reader responding to the story, this one doesn't read
like a funny thing to me--especially not when a book later JKR makes sure
to show Marietta in heavy make up and Harry pausing to enjoy her suffering.
Strange magical maladies may be canon, but the story also often turns on
acts done on other people that they don't see any reason to care about,
that cause problems later. All that would have had to be done is to have
actually shown the hex wearing off--or even not bringing it up again so
we'd assume it wore off. The author chose to do the opposite.To me, that's
more a hint that I *shouldn't* be going along with Harry on this one (not
that I would anyway--the only time the rule of "if the character doesn't
care, why should I? comes into play for me is when the character himself is
the victim).

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