What did Snape know, and When did he know it?

[Dana]

No: HPFGUIDX 169419

Carol responds:
> I've wondered about this, too, and also why the DEs didn't react to
> the presence of Wormtail/Peter, whom they thought dead.
<snip>

Dana:
Well they do not react to Harry's presence right away either so I do 
not see there being a specific reason for them to react to Peter. 
They are all a little busy trying to safe their own butts from being 
punished for not having searched for their master. And from Snape's 
reaction in HBP they all know from each other who did not search for 
him and the only once who ever did where the Lestrange who were 
locked up in Azkaban and Barthy Crouch Jr who was also believed to be 
dead. 

They however do react to LV mentioning his most loyal servant being 
at Hogwarts while 4 in the spot of 6 are supposed to be dead (3 LV 
confirms), one is to cowardly to return and one is believed to have 
left forever. I was however wrong that DEs did not know each others 
assignments because Bella confirms that Snape was at Hogwarts on LV's 
orders in HBP (Spinner's End) when the Dark Lord fell. But the DEs 
clearly consider Snape to be a traitor for staying at Hogwarts after 
LV's downfall so I have no doubt that they assumed LV was referring 
to him as the one who left him forever (which I by the way do not 
doubt either).  And LV never mentions the name of his most loyal DE 
and Barthy Crouch Jr. never returns to LV's side, while Snape does, 
but in HBP we still see that the DEs rumor about him being a traitor. 
So all seemed to know LV was not talking about Snape or Karkaroff but 
to me the reaction was because they knew who else was supposed to be 
in that gab and they believed he died in Azkaban. The 3 others died 
before LV's downfall, sure Karkaroff doesn't know Rosier is dead but 
he died just *after* his own capture but even Sirius heard about 
Wilkes as it was a year before LV's downfall and if the third is 
indeed Regulus then LV would have made that known to his DEs just to 
make an example out of him.  

To me there is still no indication that DEs did not know who was who 
or at least not within specific groups of DEs and too many do seem to 
know each other either from before they joined up or by family 
relations. There is also too many rumors flying around the DEs to 
assume that no rumors ever reached Snape's ears. Even Sirius knew 
about rumors that LV was somewhere in Albania and even Peter heard 
this and how he knew where to look. British rats could not have told 
Peter to go to Albania. And Snape lying to Bella about him believing 
LV to be finished says nothing because every single DE is using the 
same excuse. Lucius even has the nerve to tell it to LV himself. LV 
himself states that aurors were still searching for him there. Most 
DEs seemed content with LV being gone and so it does not specifically 
say anything about Snape's loyalties to DD. 

To be honest with you Snape loyalties actually do not specifically 
matter in the time LV was gone but I do believe Snape would go to any 
lengths to secure his own place and would not allowed anyone to 
compromise this, especially not one of the Marauders. Snape also 
seemed to have specifically secured that no one of the DEs could harm 
him if LV would indeed rise again and to me too it seems that Snape 
at least kept his old tie with Lucius and if Lucius did know about 
there reason LV targeted the Potters and did know LV was going there 
then Lucius in my opinion also knew who betrayed the Potters just 
like Bella did but in Bella's case JKR specifically stated that she 
was send to the Longbottom's and that she did not know about the 
prophecy and if Snape did not send her there as the one of the others 
in the know about the prophecy and who LV was going to target because 
of it then someone else knew and to me Lucius is the best candidate 
for that and if Lucius knew then he also knew who brought the 
prophecy to LV and therefore I believe that even if Snape did not 
know from LV directly that Wormtail was the spy and he did not know 
from these meetings then he surely was told by Lucius as yes I do 
speculate that it was Lucius who cleared the way for LV to get to the 
Potter as LV would not have done that part of the work himself. And I 
do not think Lucius would be too modest to wash himself of blame to 
everyone that wanted to here. And let's say that Bella wasn't at GH 
that night then someone told her about it being Peter just like 
someone told her to go after the Longbottom's. 
 
I have to correct one thing though Snape did not invite Peter to live 
with him as he specifically states that LV placed him with Snape to 
assist him. Which of course could lead to a whole knew line of 
speculation. Assist him in what? Was Snape going to bring a new pet 
to Hogwarts? Because Snape's holiday is soon to be over and he would 
not be home for Peter to assist him in anything. Anyway that is for 
another time. 

To me it is still not quite believable that DEs did not know each 
other or at least that those most trusted which include Bella and 
Lucius did not know who was who as we see in OotP and HBP groups of 
DEs are assigned to specific tasks and as we see at the World Cup DEs 
do not have a tendency to work alone. 

Snape in HBP does not call Wormtail Peter either and he wasn't at the 
graveyard to see LV refer to him like that and he knows Peter is 
Peter but he still refers to him in such a way. I know many people in 
my privet live that still go by the childhood nick names once given 
to them. 

Carol:
> First, I think that only Bella and the Lestranges (IMO, the only DEs
> arressted after Sirius Black) actually knew who Wormtail was 
> (whether or not they knew his nickname or that he was the spy, they 
> knew that he was the SK who, in their view, pretended to betray the 
> Potters in order to bring down Voldemort. They must have been the 
> ones Black heard screaming. Everyone else had been brought in 
> before GH.
<snip>

Dana:
I agree but I believe that Snape and Lucius knew too. Bella did not 
know why LV wanted to target the Potters but I believe both Lucius 
and Snape did. And Bella's specific question to Snape where Snape was 
on that specific night seems to indicate to me that she expected 
Snape to be there even if she knew Snape was at Hogwarts at LV's 
orders. Lucius in OotP specifically asks Harry if he never wondered 
why LV tried to kill him as a baby and this was after LV found out 
Lucius racked his diary so I do not believe that he told Lucius 
afterwards why he wanted the prophecy or what it was about but that 
this information was already known to Lucius. 

Carol:
> So maybe when LV refers to "Wormtail here," he's
> introducing him (but still not revealing his identity, which he 
> hints at and which they may be able to piece together, but he gives 
> similar hints about his Horcruxes and it seems that the DEs don't 
> ask questions, except the one Lucius asks, craving to know the 
> story of the Dark Lord's miraculous return. Slippery Lucius knows 
> an acceptable question that will turn away the Dark Lord's wrath.)
<snip>

Dana:
I think LV addressed those that were DEs for much longer and 
were "they, who knew" the steps he had taken and thus those who could 
have known the Dark Lord was not gone forever and thus should have 
looked for him. But even a worthless wizard as Wormtail could find LV 
by following the rumors. 

Carol:
> I'm not sure why you think that Rookwood isn't a DE. Snape's role 
> as a DE, at least post-GoF, is as a spy. Why can't Rookwood be a DE 
> spy as well? (Macnair, too, is a Ministry employee, though I think 
> he'd rather be killing people than chopping heads off beasts.)
<snip>

Dana:
Macnair according to LV himself was not a MoM employee when he was in 
LV's service, as he specifically states that Mcnair is *now* killing 
magical beast for the MoM. You're right Rookwood could have been a 
DE.