a sandwich

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 178830

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> a_svirn wrote:
> > While I agree on the whole with your description of the 
individual 
> house elves arcs, I still don't see why we shouldn't regard them as 
> parts of the whole. Indeed, I am certain we should, for to dissect a
> story – any story – into a set individual "arcs" that bear no 
> > relevance to the overall structure would devoid it of any sense 
> > whatsoever (and make it utterly unreadable). And if we put these 
> > three live histories into the context we'll see that Dobby was, 
as 
> > you say, an oddity, a freak of nature, and that it's probably 
just as 
> > well that Rowling killed him off as she did, for he wouldn't fit 
the 
> > brave new world any better that he fit the old gloomy one. We'll 
also 
> > see that this brave new world is a world where natural slaves 
(elves) 
> > live in perfect harmony with their natural masters (wizards). We 
can 
> > shrug and leave it at that of course, but I for one can't help 
> > wondering why Rowling would have it so.
> >
> Carol responds:
> I'm not sure that I agree with this point of view since, by the same
> token, we'd have to judge the Death Eaters' arcs as part of a larger
> "Death Eater arc," and we don't know what happened to the Death 
Eaters
> as a group, only to individual DEs whose stories were presented from
> the outset in some form (notably the Malfoy family and the renegade
> DE, Snape), or at least foreshadowed in earlier books (Bellatrix
> Lestrange, Igor Karkaroff, Regulus Black, et al.). I suppose we 
could
> say that the Death Eater arc ends with the death of Voldemort 
because
> there will be no new DEs, but we still don't know what became of, 
say,
> Rabastan Lestrange or even his brother, Rodolphus, who is injured in
> the Seven Potters incident and is never mentioned again. There's no
> Wizards' arc, either, only the outcome of the battle and the fates 
of
> individual witches and wizards. 

a_svirn:
I like this "only". Only the fate of the whole of wizardkind at 
stake, but no "arc" implied. 


> Carol:
As for a Goblin arc, all we get is the
> death of one Goblin and the reappearance of another, who, despite
> being rescued and healed, nevertheless demands payment for his
> services with a sword which was paid for by Godric Gryffindor and to
> which his only claim is that another Goblin made it a thousand years
> before. We get his individual arc, sort of (he doesn't show up at 
the
> battle but we can assume that he lives). Anyway, I don't see why we
> can't have the stories of three individual House-Elves without an
> overall "House-Elf arc."
> 

a_svirn:
"Arc" is your term, not mine. As for death eaters, of course, there 
is sort of general story line, behind individual biographies. We know 
how the young Tom Riddle started to gather followers while still in 
Hogwarts, we were shown something of the dynamics inside the group, 
etc. We know roughly what being a death eater entails, so when we are 
told that one or other minor character is a death eater, we could 
guess quite a lot of his or her life style even without knowing 
their "individual arcs". So yes, there is a death eater arc of a 
sort. It's just not a very interesting one, since the death eaters' 
role in the HP books is less important than house elves' role. Even 
Bellatrix's contributions to the overall plot are less crucial than 
Kreacher's. 

> Carol:
> Just out of curiosity, I'll ask again a question I've raised several
> times that has yet to be answered. What would freeing the House-
Elves,
> who want to work for wizards, accomplish? <snip>

a_svirn:
I am not the one to answer that. I happen to agree with you: in the 
world of Rowling's creation it would be pointless and perhaps even 
dangerous to free elves (not to mention cruel). I just don't see why 
she chose to create a world populated by natural slaves and natural 
masters. I understand even less why she seems to think that it is a 
nice place to live in. 

> Carol:
> Carol, who really and truly does not understand why posters see
> House-Elf freedom as in itself a good thing and would appreciate an
> explanation of the benefits these posters envisioned
>
a_svirn:
I can't say for all the other posters, but I personally think that a 
world of slaves by nature and natural masters is a very bad thing 
indeed.  Downright disgusting.