God for Harry, England, and a Sandwich

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 178893

> > a_svirn:
> > But that would mean that Hermione is a craven traitor, because she
> > wouldn't even *discuss* exploiting these possibilities. She did not
> > stop or tried to stop, or think of trying to stop elves'
> > self-punishment. Next time Kreacher does something to warrant it (in
> > his opinion) he would inflict it upon himself enthusiastically. Harry,
> > if he happens to be nearby, will stop it, of course, but then he would
> > have stopped it anyway. Even is he still loathed him he would stop it.
> > But that won't change anything for Kreacher, because this is exactly
> > the pattern that has been going on for generations. What did Hermione
> > do to stop it? When did she indicate that she might do anything to
> > stop once she has sorted out more pressing matters?
> 
> Celoneth:
> Its not clear that she could have done anything about the elves
> self-punishment. We see elf magic tied to following the orders of the
> elf's master - which is why Kreacher could apparate out of a cave with
> anti-apparition charms. The self-punishment could be the negative side
> of elf magic. It might be a natural characteristic of their magic or
> something that's been ingrained over thousands of years by wizards and
> very difficult if not impossible to change. 

a_svirn:
That's exactly what I am saying. Either she could do something but
wouldn't – which is bad form, you'll agree, or she couldn't because
that's part of their nature. One or another, we cannot have it both ways. 


> Celoneth:
> I don't like the house-elf story in the books - it does seem to make
> sentient beings that are happy with slavery - something that is
> extremely repugnant in real life. But as far as it exists, the
> characters have to deal with it. Harry deals with it by being a nice
> master to Kreacher, because as far as canon goes, there's nothing else
> he can do. 

a_svirn:
Yes. Point is, I don't like the way canon goes. And judging by this
thread I am not alone. 

> Celoneth:
We don't know how Hermione deals with it post-DH. 

a_svirn:
And it doesn't matter, because - as canon goes - there is no post-DH.
DH is the last book in the series.