Portrayal of MoM in the series VERY LONG BEWARE

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 178950

> Carol responds:
> I agree with you about Lucius Malfoy, who is using everything he
> has--name, blood, money, ruthlessness that he conceals from Fudge, 
and
> a slippery personality (he can be charming or intimidating, rather
> like some other Slytherins we know, depending on whom he's
> manipulating). Even in DH, stripped of his wand and humbled, he
> manages to survive.

Alla:

Yeah, as I mentioned before when I went through books I was very 
hapy to see that I did not notice Lucius' power or influence 
diminishing one bit till he committed a criminal act and was caught 
that is in OOP.

Carol: 
> I'm not sure about his becoming better and better buddies with 
Fudge,
> however. I think he's just using Fudge and buying influence with 
him
> by giving gold to good causes, at the same time appearing to be a
> respectable citizen concerned about the welfare of the students at
> Hogwarts and the WW at large. IMO, Fudge *wants* to believe that
> Lucius was under the Imperius Curse during VW1 just as he *wants* 
to
> believe that Voldemort has not returned. 
> <SNIP>


Alla:

Eh, of course Lucius is just using him I agree. But do you think 
that Fudge inviting Lucius as personal gues does not mean that he 
considers him to be a friend, important, influential, but friend too?

And maybe Fudge indeed wants to believe those things, I just cannot 
sympathise with him on that ground.

Carol:
<SNIP>
>To speak plainly, I think that Malfoy and
> Umbridge are working together to pull the wool over Fudge's eyes 
and
> manipulate him to their own ends, whether it's hiding a DE 
background
> and the return of Voldemort or passing anti-werewolf legislation 
and
> undermining Dumbledore's credibility through Harry. <SNIP>

Alla:

Sure, but I disagree that Fudge is just so weak and could not resist 
their charms if he wanted to.


Carol:
 Fudge, being vain and weak and seeing nothing wrong with the
> pure-blood supremacy ethic in itself as long as it doesn't lead to
> terror and violence, could easily be manipulated into seeing danger
> from DD rather than LV. 
<SNIP>

Alla:

Yeah, pureblood supremacy thing is one thing why I cannot spare a 
drop of sympathy for him.



Carol:

> At any rate, I rather like Fudge, weak and manipulable and capable 
of
> self-delusion though he is. <SNIP>


Alla:

I am just curious why you like him? Not as written character, 
because I think he is very well done, but if you look at him 
as "person". I mean, let's assume I completely agree with you and he 
is so weak and manipulable that he is just self deluded. I mean, I 
partially agree with you, but I think that Fudge has enough evil 
ideas of his own that he had a reason to be sucked in Umbridge and 
Lucius' views and ideas and actions. 

I mean, would you respect RL politician like him? I swear I am not 
going to talk any RL politicians, but wouldn't you want stronger 
figure regardless of which ideas you would want him to represent?

Just curious.

Carol:
> "The Other Minister" in HBP shows Fudge making repeated effort to 
keep
> the Muggle Prime Minister informed of developments in the WW that
> might endanger the Muggles and telling him the truth about what
> happened to his own assistant, the quacking Herbert Chorley. 

Alla:

Ah.  He did try to inform muggle minister, but didn't he tells him 
the truth, complete truth 
including the truth about his quaking person only after he was 
sucked?


Carol: 
<SNIP>
>> However, Ministry employees run the gamut (IMO) from genuinely 
evil
> characters like Umbridge and Macnair to Crouch Sr.,<snip>through 
well-meaning but inept bureaucrats
> like Fudge who are more concerned with image than efficiency and 
fear
> their own loss of power to the likeable and good-hearted but 
slightly
> corrupted Arthur Weasley to the powerful and incorruptible Amanda
> Bones. <SNIP>


Alla:

Sure, there is a whole spectrum, but my point was that good people 
are not majority there and of course they are not all DE, just easy 
to take over, as it turns  IMO. There is also Tonks and Kingsley.



> Carol:
> Yes, that was a clue, all right. I just thought that he was killing
> off a powerful enemy. Should have known he was preparing a Ministry
> takeover, but I was caught by surprise.

Alla:

As I said, maybe Voldemort still had some intelligence left ;)


Alla:

I may respond to your other points later on or not. Way too tired 
today.