A Dark Glamour - Voldemort's Appeal - DDs Complicity

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 179037

> In message #178944
> Potioncat:
> 
> I think Regulus was attracted to the idea of being a True born 
> Wizard leader who should be free to walk as a Wizard and rule the
> Muggles. <<<

Mike:
I'm a terrible teacher, I should've told potioncat she was excused 
from this homework assignment since she had already submitted her 
essay:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/178090

In fact, it was this post of hers that prompted this exercise. So 
we'll just call this answer extra credit, okay PC?


> In message #179018
> lizzyben:

> I've taught you well, grasshopper. :) Of course, DD wasn't a Death
Eater, but those quotes do reveal a great deal about his real self-
image. I think DD knows, deep down, that he could've easily become a
DE as well if Voldemort were around in his day. And he knows that
his feelings about Muggles once matched GG & LV, & perhaps still do
in some ways. <<<

Mike:
This is a little OT: I wrote "Dumbledore Does Lie" posts in two parts 
and had always intended to finish with part three. Then I read 
your "Puppetmaster DD" post (#171278, pre-DH) and I felt you had 
finished my Part III for me. (yes, I know Puppetmaster!DD was not 
lizzyben's invention nor by any means an exclusive reading, but hers 
struck a chord for me.) 

Granted, not all of the things you predicted, and I agreed with, came 
true; e.g. Dumbledore didn't engineer the release of the prophesy. 
But he certainly took full advantage of it, by his own admission he 
was training Harry to be "the chosen one" from the moment Harry's 
parents were killed.

Though I don't hold Dumbledore in quite the contempt that you do, I 
freely admit that he was very much the puppetmaster to Harry's Chosen 
One. The main difference is I thought Dumbledore's guidance was 
needed to not just defeat LV but to also keep Harry alive to do it. 
The destruction of LV's Horcruxes meant that Harry could have that 
final battle that ultimately does Riddle in. Elsewise, Voldemort 
would've kept coming back and would've continued to hunt Harry until 
he finally found a way to kill him. That much is clear from DH, imo.


> In message #179029
> lizzyben:

> For Snape, the DE's seemed powerful, respected, feared. They'd be 
the coolest baddest gang on the block. <<<

Mike: You mean they had a "dark glamour"? ;)


> In message #179029 & #179030
> lizzyben:
> That might still be
> the case, but now I'd say it was more protection from the world in
> general. IMO joining this group would give Snape a sense of
> protection & safety; in the sense that being part of any group
> protects one individual. It's the protection that most people find
> in a family or circle of friends. Lacking that, people (especially
> young men) can turn to gangs instead. I don't think that it's the
> *main* reason, but it's an important one, & the best fit of the
> three categories Mike mentioned.

> a_svirn:
> Oh yes, in that sense I agree. Though I wouldn't call it protection.
The other two you mentioned upthread – affirmation and affection –
suit better. He was unpopular, a loner and he wanted to belong. And
the junior death eater league was elite of a sort in Slytherin. Does
it mean that he was weak? He seemed to be emotionally crippled,
almost pathetic in his neediness and that is certainly a weakness. He
was weak in the same sense Lupin was weak, but it's not the sort of
weakness that brought the likes of Pettigrew to Voldemort. <<<

Mike:
Well I did say pick your own theory if that fits better. But I 
thought with Snape there was a degree of desire for "shared glory". 
By that I mean some of that affirmation you mentioned, a need to be 
thought of as valuable. Not "glory" as in the sense of being widely 
acclaimed, which would have been an unlikely goal for any DE in the 
shadow of Voldemort. But "glory" in the sense that my idol (LV) is 
acclaimed and I help put him there.


> In message #179027
> bboyminn:

> So, I think that is one of the powers Voldemort had over
his Death Eaters, the possibility that if he favored you
enough, he would reveal his secret.

> I highly suspect that is exactly what Lucius Malfoy thought.
Until he lost favor, I think he fancied himself as
Voldemort's number 2; heir to the throne and all it's
legacies. I suspect, and this is only my speculation, that
deep down Lucius thought he would eventually know the
secret that guards against death. In knowing the secret,
he would also know the flaw or vulnerability in the magic. <<<

Mike:
I don't disagree with your speculation here, I can easily see that as 
Lucius long term plan after joining. But that must have come *after* 
he joined, surely Voldemort wasn't confiding anything about his 
immortality quest to mere recruits. So what was the original 
attraction for Lucius? He doesn't seem to need protection, and he 
isn't the thuggish type. But I don't quite see him as the shared 
glory disciple, he seems too independant. 

Lucius is an enigma for me. He alone amongst all the DEs we were 
introduced to doesn't seem the type to join LV's organization. When 
Lucius hissed "Prove it" in CoS, and DD admits that no one will be 
able to, it showed me that Lucius had as much moxey in his dark plans 
as LV did. So why did he need LV?

I could have bought him as somebody's #2 when Voldemort is still in 
his purging-the-competition stage (from the original post in this 
thread), but Lucius Malfoy was too young. Could it be that Abraxus 
was that #2 and recruited his son after being co-opted into the DEs 
himself? That seems like too much speculating. I wish someone that 
gets Lucius better than I do could enlighten me.

Mike