Slytherin as villains / Ender vs. Harry SPOILERS for Ender's Game

[lizzyben04]

No: HPFGUIDX 179107

> Potioncat:
<snip>
> LV says Draco didn't join him like the rest of the Slytherins. 
But,  rest of the Slytherins doesn't have to mean all of the 
Slytherins. 
> And we know that at least 2 other Slytherins aren't there. <snip> 
So "rest of the Slytherins" would mean those Slytherins 
> who were DEs or DE connected or even, that clump of Slytherin 
> students who did show up.
> My real point has nothing to do with whether LV is telling a lie; 
but 
> rather whether there's hope that some Cough**Theo**cough didn't 
join 
> LV.

lizzyben: 

Oh, yeah, there's hope for Theodore Nott! In my alternate version, 
he & Zabini just roll their eyes at the whole thing & head for 
Hogsmeade station. I don't think LV is lying & his statement 
is corraborated by extrinsic evidence. But he's not concentrating on 
accounting for every single Slytherin. If a sea of Slyths show up on 
the DE side, LV would notice Draco's absence, but he wouldn't notice 
the absence of a few anonymous students. So it's *possible*  
that a few other Slytherins didn't join the crowd. 

And I actually don't think that the Slytherin kids joined the battle 
on the DE side. LV's statement implies that Draco is still in the 
Hogwarts battle, & therefore in danger of death, unlike the *rest* 
of the Slytherins. He's saying that the wise Slytherin students who 
joined him are safe, while unwise Draco is still in danger in the 
battle. I don't think he would say that if the Slytherin students 
were actually back at Hogwarts as well. And Lord knows JKR doesn't 
miss an opportunity to tell us how much the Slytherins suck. If some 
traitor Slytherins were fighting w/the DE, I think that would've 
been mentioned in the text. 

Finally, actually fighting for a cause (however misguided) would 
show *courage*. Courage is a Gryffindor virtue, & in JKR's eyes, the 
ultimate virtue. In the Great Hall, all the Houses were judged on 
their willingness to fight: the majority of Gryffindors stayed to 
fight, while all the Slytherins turned tail & ran (after Pansy tried 
to sell out Harry Potter). The message there is that Slytherins are 
*cowards*, while Gryffindors are courageous. It would mess with that 
message if some Slytherin students came back to fight in the battle. 
By risking their lives & fighting for a cause (however awful), they 
would be showing courage & bravery - and that's not the Slytherin 
way. No, I think LV was telling the truth; the Slytherin students 
joined his side, and then waited out the battle in safety behind 
enemy lines. 

Potioncat:
> Pretty much, Slytherin House appears as the villain after DH. I'm 
not 
> sure if JKR intended that, or if the bigger picture became blurry 
> while she worked on the smaller details. In an interview she had 
> stated that not all Slytherins had DE ties, and that some students 
> from other houses did have DE ties. If she really intended that, 
she 
> didn't show it.

lizzyben:

I think she always intended it. Slytherin is the house of bad guys, 
and the judgements about them are true. As soon as they had the 
chance, the Slytherin students rushed over to Voldemort's side. Why? 
Who knows? I can't imagine any Hogwarts student thinking that 
Voldemort is a good cause to join after being tortured & 
tormented by Death Eaters all year. Wouldn't the little first years 
want to go home to their family instead of joining the creepy scary 
monster guy? You'd think, but no. I can't fathom the Slytherin mind -
 they don't think the way normal people do. The motivation here 
makes no sense, but it just seems to be - they did it because 
they're Slytherins, and they're bad. Therefore, they naturally 
joined the bad guy. On another thread, people are having trouble 
understanding Lucius' motivation for sticking with Voldemort, but 
again I think it's just that simple - he's bad, so of course he goes 
with the bad guy. What more do you need to know?

Some people (including me) have criticized McGonegal for holding all 
the Slytherins guilty by association & telling Slughorn that she 
will shoot to kill. But JKR then makes sure to tell us that all the 
evacuated Slytherin students actually joined Voldemort. So, 
McGonegal's snap judgments were *correct* - the Slytherin students 
were snakes in the grass who should be kicked out of Hogwarts. Or 
maybe should be exorcised & kicked out of wizarding society entirely.

And yeah, JKR had previously said that Slytherins are not all bad. 
But in the same interview you mentioned, JKR also jokingly 
said "couldn't they just shoot them all?" And that joke ended up 
being the most relevant statement. In the end of DH, McGonegal 
threatens to shoot the Slytherin students, and the text backs her up 
on that position. She's assuming that the Slytherins are traitors, 
and then we learn that that assumption was correct - the Slytherin 
students actually were traitors & bad guys. McGonegal's reaction was 
over-the-top, violent, paranoid and *correct*. Because Slytherins 
are really just worthless people who would turn Hogwarts over to the 
bad guys. I don't know why it was so important for JKR to beat us 
over the head with this particular message. It just seemed so over-
the-top in DH. Yes, Slytherins suck, I get it! 


lizzyben