Why down on all the characters?

[stephab67]

No: HPFGUIDX 179345


 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "a_svirn" <a_svirn@> wrote:
"Personally, I think it is a false problem. I, for one, do not crack 
down on the *characters*. It is the *books* I feel dissatisfied 
with, or, rather, the book – DH.  Some of my favourite books are full
of characters I detest, or dislike, or feel indifferent towards, and I 
still enjoy them none the less. What I find objectionable in DH is 
a) a crudely cobbled up plot and b) highly questionable morality which 
we are supposed to accept as "the epitome of goodness" almost Good 
Tidings, in fact." 
> 
Then Magpie wrote:
"That's a much better description of what I think is going on--I think 
you're right in calling it a false problem. Liking or disliking  
characters isn't even the same thing as having a problem with them. 
Like you describe with Dumbledore, a person can think he's 
problematic given what he's supposed to be without feeling strongly 
about him one way or another. To me it just so happens that there's a 
lot of things I had problems with in DH that I actually want to 
discuss--the same things you mention here. There have always been 
people who hated one character or another, sometimes while they 
really loved other characters. That's really a different issue than 
having a problem with DH or the series as a whole." 
 
Steph:
Were we really supposed to accept Dumbledore (who I assume you're
talking about, a_sivrn) as the epitome of goodness?  My interpretation
is that JKR set up Dumbledore that way in the previous six books
deliberately so that we, along with Harry, would be shocked at the
reality of DD, rather than the facade he was showing to everyone for
most of his life.  Up through HBP the reader only got Harry's
impression of Dumbledore, which was that of a kindly, wise, powerful,
and totally good wizard.  I took this as a message that even the
people who are on the side of good have ulterior motives that might
not be completely honorable, which is of course how life really works
unless one is a saint, which of course few people are.  The scene when
Harry takes Snape's memories and puts them into the Pensieve asked the
question, "does the end justify the means?"

That chapter also shows that people aren't always who we think they
are.  Snape obviously is the other character who fits this scenario. I
actually read DD and Snape as two sides of the same coin, or maybe
more accurately, the same type of character but who behave oppositely
but to the same end.  Snape allows people to think him a bad person
while secretly working for good (with ulterior motive regarding Lily),
while DD maintains a benevolent exterior while hiding Machiavellian
machinations to achieve Voldie's destruction.  

Magpie wrote:
"One of the changes I have post-DH is I think of the characters less
as characters and more as fictional constructs. I no longer like or
dislike them with much intensity, because they don't seem as real to
me now for whatever reason."

Steph:
I take this to mean that you look at the characters as archetypes
meant to send a message/propel the story rather than as real people.  
I don't disagree with you regarding some of the characters. I thought
of DD that way until DH, where the revelations about him made him more
believable, rather than less (I always thought something wasn't right
about him because a: he seemed too good to be true, and b: he allowed
Draco to attempt to kill him all school year long in HBP despite the
fact that this nearly caused the deaths of two students - a decision
which, at best, was irresponsible, and at worst morally wrong). 
Voldie always seemed to be a fictional construct, because his errors
went beyond arrogance, they were just stupid.  Harry became more of a
fictional construct in DH in the last part of the book.  He went from
ordinary kid put in extraordinary circumstances to The Hero.  

By the way, I really hated the Kings Cross chapter.  Not because Harry
thought he was dead, nor because he "went back," but because DD was
fawning over Harry like some fangirl.  Ewww.