Dumbledore and other leaders WAS: Moody's death

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 179443

> Alla:
> > 
> > I thought he was trying really hard to save the lives of his 
> > soldiers, to do everything possible to make sure they survive 
that 
> > fight. RIGHT. Instead he pretty much IMO gives them all as pigs 
for 
> > slaughters for DE to make sure Snape is even more in favor of 
> > Voldemort? As if he was not enough.
> > 
> 
> Pippin:
> Does it matter how many soldiers' lives are saved 
> if the war is lost?
> <SNIP>


Alla:

How is this relevant to the point I was making? I am not arguing 
that Dumbledore should have tried to save the lifes of as many 
soldiers (not even soldiers, volunteers) who fight for him and lost 
the war. I am saying that he should have tried **harder**, I am 
saying that he did not tried enough in my opinion.


Pippin:
> It's no different than Gandalf counselling Eomer and Aragorn
> to lead their forces against the Black Gate, IMO. As Gandalf said 
> himself, it was not a prudent choice and the only purpose was to 
give 
> the Ringbearer's mission a better chance. 

Alla:

Oh yeah I think it was very different IMO. I do not remember anybody 
betraying their mission in advance to Sauron.

Oh, and another key difference to me is that mission, suicidal and 
desperate as it was **had** a purpose. Tell me what was the purpose 
of seven Potters again?

And another difference to me is that I am much more comfortable with 
Godlike being deciding the fates of the people. Last time I looked 
Dumbledore was not one. 

The better comparison with that battle IMO would be battle of 
Hogwarts. The only purpose of which was to give Harry a better 
chance to find diadem, no?

Now, I am totally with a_svirn that this battle could have been 
avoided and so many lives saved had Dumbledore shared and allowed 
Harry to share information earlier ( about horcruxes I mean), but at 
that moment I totally understand why the battle had to happen.

Suicidal and desperate, but necessary, I think.


Pippin: 
> Certainly no common soldiers were asked for their opinion, nor was 
it 
> explained to them that they were being marched to certain death 
for the 
> sake of a secret mission that was no more than a fool's hope in
> the first place. So I guess Gandalf, Aragorn and Eomer by your 
definition 
> would not be  good people either. 
> 
> Of course if you look at what real life leaders like Lincoln or 
FDR were
> willing to sanction, they make Dumbledore look like a saint.

Alla:

I mentioned somewhere Pippin that I do not hold the majority of RL 
politicians in much respect, so I fail to see the relevance of your 
analogy again.

Oh, and Lincoln specifically is not on my high list either. When I 
vote, I vote for ideas and hoping that people who will implement 
them, will at least try to implement them close enough to their 
promises and do not become corrupt, desperate and greedy.

Anyways, back to fictional leaders. Let me bring up fictional 
leader, who makes Dumbledore and his morals look like a devil as far 
as I am concerned. Have you watched "American President" movie? 
Well, if you did the president as portrayed there is my ideal of the 
politician, which yes I am quite aware of pretty hard to find in RL.

There is an episode there, when he has to decide whether to order an 
attack on Libya's military thing in responce to attack on american 
personel. He does order an attack, but he chooses at least the night 
shift to make sure that as little as possible civilans are killed, 
And he STILL says that this is the least presidential thing he ever 
did.

So, no I do not want Dumbledore to shy away from hard decisions, but 
I certainly wanted him to think twice before submitting the lifes of 
his people to unnecessary risks and this COO COO plan certainly 
counts as such in my book. IMO of course.



 
> Alla:
> > And hate Snape as I am, I sure give him credit here for saving 
Lupin. 
> > OMG. Saving Lupin of all people.
> 
> Pippin:
> Ah, but you see, if Snape had not been so high in Voldemort's 
favor,
> he might not have been there to save Lupin. 


Alla:

And had Dumbledore did not come up with this plan Snape did not NEED 
to be there to save Lupin in the first place.

JMO,

Alla