Why down on all the characters?/ Dumbledore

[Zara]

No: HPFGUIDX 179462

> Shelley:
> but in this epilogue, she does such a huge leap that 
> I was like "what? No way". That's how disconnected that line was. 
She didn't 
> show me Harry's thoughts, why he forgave Snape, she didn't show us 
why Harry 
> thought that Snape even deserved it. Thus that forgiveness is very 
shallow 
> and totally unbelievable. It would be like saying Sirius and Snape 
were now 
> best friends and very chummy; none of us would believe that without 
some 
> solid evidence of an event that changed things. I don't see Snape 
giving 
> Harry the memories as enough of a significant event- sure it helped 
Harry 
> understand what happened, but there is a HUGE gap between 
understanding a 
> crime and forgiving that crime enough to name your child after the 
criminal! 

zgirnius:
The true crimes of which Harry believed Snape to be guilty when he 
saw Snape die were:
1) Being a Death Eater, and, most important to Harry, the one who 
gave Voldemort the prophecy fragment that led him to seek out Harry 
and his parents,
2) The murder of Albus Dumbledore,
3) The deliberate disfigurement (and possibly, attempted murder) or 
George Weasley, and
4) Enthusiastic collaboration with the Thicknesse/Voldemort regime as 
Headmaster, including, a short time before, an attempt to find Harry 
for Voldemort.

The memories did not "explain" crimes 2)-4), they showed Snape to 
have been innocent of them altogether. The memories also showed that 
Snape did NOT always work against Harry ("Keep an eye on Quirrell, 
Severus", and the fact that Snape provided the sword of Gryffindor to 
Harry when he needed it, not to mention instances of which Harry was 
already aware, such as Snape sending the Order to the DoM in OotP, or 
protecting him at the end of HBP).

The only one of these crimes that Snape truly committed, and thus the 
memories explained rather than showing it did not exist, was 1). They 
gave Harry some idea of why Snape did it, and left Harry with the 
conviction that, just as Albus had told him a year before, 1) was 
indeed the greatest regret of Snape's life, and that even before 
Harry's parents had died, Snape agreed to risk his life as 
Dumbledore's spy in exchange for the protection of the Potters.

Being mean to Harry is not a crime, and I personally do not think 
Harry is or was petty enough to consider it such.

Shelley:
> There was a gulf of hatred between Snape and Harry, and you just 
don't cross 
> or repair that gulf with a wave of a wand, as Rowling attempts to 
do with 
> simply saying Harry named his child after Snape. 

zgirnius:
I would like to clarify that I respect that you are expressing the 
way the books made you *feel*, so please do not take this as me 
trying to tell you that you should feel differently. I am simply 
explaining the facts of what is and is not in the books as I see it, 
because it seems to me there is content you are overlooking or 
glossing over.

We did not jump from Harry diving into the Pensieve to Harry naming 
little Al Sev, with no intervening text to help us. We have both 
little hints and big ones before the Epilogue.

Within the Pensieve memories, I see evidence of a 180 degree change 
in Harry's perception of Snape. Consider the scene in which Snape 
cuts off George's ear. Harry is a neutral observer there; he does not 
have access to Snape's innermost thoughts. Yet his conclusion is 
immediately, that Snape attempted to save the life of Remus Lupin. 
Contrast this to any earlier scene of Snape doing anything remotely 
ambiguous - Harry would always jump to the *least* favorable 
conclusion. Not that time.

After Snape strides out of the office with the sword at the end of 
the final memory, Harry, lying in the office, has the feeling Snape 
has just left. A subtle indication of a new emotional closeness, in 
my opinion. Also, Harry has no doubt, none at all, about the truth of 
what Snape told him, regarding what he must do. He now trusts him.

Next, in King's Cross Harry brings Snape up, and he and Dumbledore 
both take a long moment of silence to consider his death. No frowning 
or impatience by Harry. Then, in "The Flaw in the Plan", Harry 
flaunts Snape's loyalty to Dumbledore, and throws it in Voldemort's 
face. It may not work for you, but I felt Harry did so not only 
because it annoyed Tom, but because he felt it was important everyone 
should know, it was something he found impressive and admirable.

And Harry again tells Ron and Hermione about what he has learned, 
after the battle is won. All before the Epilogue. 

> Shelley:
> As I said, Snape's meanness 
> and cruelty to Harry doesn't have a justification in the end, that 
it even is reasonable that it should be forgiven.

zgirnius:
It's not just a matter of forgiving the meanness. (And, jutifiable 
behavior does not need to be forgiven...) The meanness is not the 
whole story. To me, it seems obvious, on an emotional level, that the 
story of Snape's service and death outweighs that. Snape struggled 
and risked and finally died in an attempt (successful, and in part 
due to those efforts) to ensure that Harry lived. Should that mean 
nothing to Harry? The process, it seems to me, is not of merely 
forgetting or forgiving the meanness, but of integrating the 
siginificant, new information Harry got about Snape. I saw this 
latter thing happen, in Harry's complete acceptance of the memories 
within the main body of the novel.